AC nerf - Revision history

Hordes at 03:28, 11 October 2023

2023-10-11T03:28:15Z

Hordes at 03:27, 11 October 2023

2023-10-11T03:27:31Z

Hordes: remove white space

2023-08-01T23:01:07Z

remove white space

Ion frigate: 1 revision: characters and game mechanics

2012-12-21T04:52:40Z

1 revision: characters and game mechanics

Flaming Corpse: oldversion -> obsolete

2012-02-25T05:00:14Z

oldversion -> obsolete

New page

{{Obsolete}}
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This AC nerf that this page refers to has to a large extent been undone in 0.8 and later versions. The mechanics did not change between 0.7 and 0.8, but GDR was vastly increased and heavy armour allowed much higher enchantments. Thus, this page is mostly obsolete.
|}

==AC/EV changes==

The first iteration of AC/EV changes as described on http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:misc:ac

Although the distinction between heavy and light armour has been removed for the actual AC and EV calculations, the heavy/light armour distinction is still in place for skill training. Skill training is not modified in any way by this change.

Change details follow, with Armour = armour skill, Dodge = Dodging skill:

===New total AC===

= base_AC * (23 + effective_armour_skill) / 23

+ enchantments

+ modifiers

Where

- effective_armour_skill = armour skill + racial armour skill bonus.

- enchantments = armour enchantments

- modifiers = transforms, mutations, etc. affecting AC.

New guaranteed damage reduction:

= body_base_AC*(13+Armour)/17 * max_dam/100

===New total EV===

= 10 + size + (7 * Dodge * Dex) / (20 * AEVP - size) - AEVP - ASP + bonuses

Where size = 2 * (medium - body_size)

having: body_size be one of:

tiny = 0

little = 1

small = 2

medium = 3

large = 4

big = 5

giant = 6

huge = 7

For ref: halfling = small, human = medium, ogre = large, dragon = huge

AEVP (adjusted evasion penalty for armour):

= body_AEVP + piece_EVP

Where body_AEVP is for the body armour, calculated as:

= (EVP + MAX(0, 3*EVP - Str)) * (45 - Armour) /45

where EVP = base evasion penalty of the armour

piece_EVP is the sum of the base evasion penalties of

the non-body armour worn, excluding shields. Currently

this is only applicable to bardings (EVP of 2).

ASP (adjusted shield evasion penalty):

= SP - (1 + Shields) / (2 * (5 + size))

where SP = 1 for buckler, 3 for shield, 5 for large shield

===New spellcasting penalty===

= 25 * (body_AEVP + ASP) - 20 - race_mod

where race_mod = 25 for elven, -15 for dwarven,

+15 for races in their native armour.

===New combat penalties===

- to-hit penalty = 1d(body_AEVP) + 1d(ASP)

- to-hit penalty for 1.5 hand weapons = 1d(body_AEVP) + 2d(ASP)

- to-dam penalty for 1.5 hand = 1d(ASP)

- base_delay is unchanged if body_AEVP is 0, otherwise:

- base_delay = max(base_delay, 1d10 + 1d(body_AEVP))

- base_delay for unarmed = max(base_delay, 1d10 + 2d(body_AEVP))

- final_delay += min(1d(body_AEVP), 1d(body_AEVP))

- final_delay for 1.5 hand += min(1d(body_AEVP) + 1dASP,

1d(body_AEVP) + 1dASP)

==What does this all mean?==

* The armour skill doesn't increase your AC as much. In 5.2 you need 15 levels in the skill to double your base armour, in 0.6, you need 23.
*Heavy armour's main benefit, the guaranteed damage reduction (GDR), was [[nerf]]ed. In 0.5, each skill level in armour and base AC point on your body armour added 2% GDR, so it was possible to reach the max 50% without much trouble. Now, a character with 27 armour skill wearing crystal plate mail gets something like 30% damage reduction and most heavy armour users will get around 20-25%.
* Heavy armour is harder to train. In 0.5, you could guarantee that you would train only heavy armour by wearing armour that had an EV penalty bigger than (1/3) x your armour skill. This was great for hybrids as they could grab a ring mail, train armour to 6, get a scale mail, train it to 9, etc. Now you train both armour and dodging at the same time and the later is much, much easier to train while wearing medium weight armour so a good deal of xp goes to dodging, even with the skill deactivated. This could be good if low levels of dodging were useful while wearing the heavier armours, but they're not.
* It's harder to cast in heavy armour. In order to make strength useful there is now a penalty to casting if your str is not at least 3x the EV penalty of your armour. This means heavy armour casters have to invest points into str in order to be able to cast. While this does make str more "useful" the end result is that heavy armour casters are less powerful.

[[Category:Game mechanics]]

@@ Line 3: / Line 3: @@
 |-
 ||
-This AC nerf that this page refers to has to a large extent been undone in 0.8 and later versions. The mechanics remained the same between versions, but [[GDR]] was vastly increased, and heavy armour now allows for higher enchantments. Thus, this page is obsolete.|}
+This AC nerf that this page refers to has to a large extent been undone in 0.8 and later versions. The mechanics remained the same between versions, but [[GDR]] was vastly increased, and heavy armour now allows for higher enchantments. Thus, this page is obsolete.
 ==AC/EV changes==
@@ Line 70: / Line 71: @@
 ==What does this all mean?==
 *The Armour skill no longer increases your AC as much. In 0.5.2, you need 15 levels in the skill to double your base armour, in 0.6, you need 23.
-*[[GDR]] has been nerfed. In 0.5, each skill level in armour and base AC point on your body armour added 2% GDR, so it was possible to reach the max 50% without much trouble. Now, a character with 27 armour skill wearing crystal plate mail gets something like 30% damage reduction and most heavy armour users will get around 20-25%.
+*[[GDR]] has been nerfed. In 0.5, each skill level in Armour and base AC point on your body armour added 2% GDR, so it was possible to reach the max 50% without much trouble. Now, a character with 27 Armour skill wearing crystal plate mail gets something like 30% damage reduction, and most heavy armour users will get around 20-25%.
 *Heavy armour is harder to train. In 0.5, you could guarantee that you would train heavy armour if <code>EV penalty > 1/3 * armour</code>. Hybrids could grab a ring mail, train Armour to 6, get a scale mail, train it to 9, etc. Now, you train both Armour and Dodging at the same time. As Dodging is ''much'' easier to train in medium-weight armour, XP invariably gets poured into Dodging (even with the skill deactivated). This could be good if low levels of Dodging were useful while wearing the heavier armours, but they're not.
 *It's harder to cast in heavy armour. In order to make strength useful there is now a penalty to casting if your str is not at least 3x the EV penalty of your armour. This means heavy armour casters have to invest points into str in order to be able to cast. While this does make str more "useful", the end result is that heavy armour casters are less powerful.
 [[Category:Game mechanics]]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{Obsolete}}
+{{obsolete}}
 {| border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="2" style="border: 1px solid {{{Rand|#FFA4A4}}}; background-color: #FFFFFF; border-left: 10px solid {{{RandLinks|#FF6666}}}; margin-bottom: 0.4em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; width: 100%"
 |-
 ||
-This AC nerf that this page refers to has to a large extent been undone in 0.8 and later versions.  The mechanics did not change between 0.7 and 0.8, but GDR was vastly increased and heavy armour allowed much higher enchantments.  Thus, this page is mostly obsolete.
+This AC nerf that this page refers to has to a large extent been undone in 0.8 and later versions. The mechanics remained the same between versions, but [[GDR]] was vastly increased, and heavy armour now allows for higher enchantments. Thus, this page is obsolete.|}
 ==AC/EV changes==
 The first iteration of AC/EV changes as described on http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:misc:ac
-Although the distinction between heavy and light armour has been removed for the actual AC and EV calculations, the heavy/light armour distinction is still in place for skill training. Skill training is not modified in any way by this change.
+Although the distinction between "heavy armour" and "light armour" has been removed for the actual AC and EV calculations, the heavy/light armour distinction is still in place for skill training. Skill training is not modified in any way by this change.
 Change details follow, with Armour = armour skill, Dodge = Dodging skill:
@@ Line 20: / Line 18: @@
      + modifiers
-    Where
+Where:
       - effective_armour_skill = armour skill + racial armour skill bonus.
       - enchantments = armour enchantments
@@ Line 33: / Line 31: @@
      Where size = 2 * (medium - body_size)
                having: body_size be one of:
-                   tiny = 0
+                   tiny = 0 | little = 1 | small  = 2 | medium = 3 | large  = 4 | big    = 5 | giant  = 6 | huge   = 7
                For ref: halfling = small, human = medium, ogre = large, dragon = huge
@@ Line 56: / Line 47: @@
                = SP - (1 + Shields) / (2 * (5 + size))
                  where SP = 1 for buckler, 3 for shield, 5 for large shield
 ===New spellcasting penalty===
@@ Line 80: / Line 69: @@
 ==What does this all mean?==
+*The Armour skill no longer increases your AC as much. In 0.5.2, you need 15 levels in the skill to double your base armour, in 0.6, you need 23.
-* The armour skill doesn't increase your AC as much. In 5.2 you need 15 levels in the skill to double your base armour, in 0.6, you need 23.
+*[[GDR]] has been nerfed. In 0.5, each skill level in armour and base AC point on your body armour added 2% GDR, so it was possible to reach the max 50% without much trouble. Now, a character with 27 armour skill wearing crystal plate mail gets something like 30% damage reduction and most heavy armour users will get around 20-25%.
-*Heavy armour's main benefit, the guaranteed damage reduction (GDR), was [[nerf]]ed. In 0.5, each skill level in armour and base AC point on your body armour added 2% GDR, so it was possible to reach the max 50% without much trouble. Now, a character with 27 armour skill wearing crystal plate mail gets something like 30% damage reduction and most heavy armour users will get around 20-25%.
+*Heavy armour is harder to train. In 0.5, you could guarantee that you would train heavy armour if <code>EV penalty > 1/3 * armour</code>. Hybrids could grab a ring mail, train Armour to 6, get a scale mail, train it to 9, etc. Now, you train both Armour and Dodging at the same time. As Dodging is ''much'' easier to train in medium-weight armour, XP invariably gets poured into Dodging (even with the skill deactivated). This could be good if low levels of Dodging were useful while wearing the heavier armours, but they're not.
-* Heavy armour is harder to train. In 0.5, you could guarantee that you would train only heavy armour by wearing armour that had an EV penalty bigger than (1/3) x your armour skill. This was great for hybrids as they could grab a ring mail, train armour to 6, get a scale mail, train it to 9, etc. Now you train both armour and dodging at the same time and the later is much, much easier to train while wearing medium weight armour so a good deal of xp goes to dodging, even with the skill deactivated. This could be good if low levels of dodging were useful while wearing the heavier armours, but they're not.
+*It's harder to cast in heavy armour. In order to make strength useful there is now a penalty to casting if your str is not at least 3x the EV penalty of your armour. This means heavy armour casters have to invest points into str in order to be able to cast. While this does make str more "useful", the end result is that heavy armour casters are less powerful.
 [[Category:Game mechanics]]

@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
    = base_AC * (23 + effective_armour_skill) / 23
      + enchantments
      + modifiers
      Where
       - effective_armour_skill = armour skill + racial armour skill bonus.
       - enchantments = armour enchantments
       - modifiers = transforms, mutations, etc. affecting AC.
 New guaranteed damage reduction:
    = body_base_AC*(13+Armour)/17 * max_dam/100
 ===New total EV===
    = 10 + size + (7 * Dodge * Dex) / (20 * AEVP - size) - AEVP - ASP + bonuses
      Where size = 2 * (medium - body_size)
                having: body_size be one of:
                    tiny = 0
                    little = 1
                    small  = 2
                    medium = 3
                    large  = 4
                    big    = 5
                    giant  = 6
                    huge   = 7
                For ref: halfling = small, human = medium, ogre = large, dragon = huge
            AEVP (adjusted evasion penalty for armour):
                = body_AEVP + piece_EVP
                  Where body_AEVP is for the body armour, calculated as:
                          = (EVP + MAX(0, 3*EVP - Str)) * (45 - Armour) /45
                            where EVP = base evasion penalty of the armour
                        piece_EVP is the sum of the base evasion penalties of
                        the non-body armour worn, excluding shields. Currently
                        this is only applicable to bardings (EVP of 2).
            ASP (adjusted shield evasion penalty):
                = SP - (1 + Shields) / (2 * (5 + size))
                  where SP = 1 for buckler, 3 for shield, 5 for large shield
@@ Line 91: / Line 62: @@
    = 25 * (body_AEVP + ASP) - 20 - race_mod
      where race_mod = 25 for elven, -15 for dwarven,
            +15 for races in their native armour.
@@ Line 99: / Line 68: @@
    - to-hit penalty = 1d(body_AEVP) + 1d(ASP)
    - to-hit penalty for 1.5 hand weapons = 1d(body_AEVP) + 2d(ASP)
    - to-dam penalty for 1.5 hand = 1d(ASP)
    - base_delay is unchanged if body_AEVP is 0, otherwise:
      - base_delay             = max(base_delay, 1d10 + 1d(body_AEVP))
      - base_delay for unarmed = max(base_delay, 1d10 + 2d(body_AEVP))
      - final_delay              += min(1d(body_AEVP), 1d(body_AEVP))
      - final_delay for 1.5 hand += min(1d(body_AEVP) + 1dASP,

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