Help talk:Style guide - Revision history

Ge0ff: /* Hashing Out Renames */ add 5th level of replies; can we go even deeper?

2024-01-16T00:25:15Z

‎Hashing Out Renames: add 5th level of replies; can we go even deeper?

Hordes at 12:21, 15 January 2024

2024-01-15T12:21:41Z

Hordes: /* Hashing Out Renames */

2024-01-14T10:40:41Z

‎Hashing Out Renames

Hordes: /* Hashing Out Renames */

2024-01-14T10:40:20Z

‎Hashing Out Renames

Ge0ff: /* Hashing Out Renames */ re: keeping almost identical spells together

2024-01-12T12:58:28Z

‎Hashing Out Renames: re: keeping almost identical spells together

Hordes: /* Hashing Out Renames */

2024-01-12T06:13:51Z

‎Hashing Out Renames

Ge0ff: /* Hashing Out Renames */ re: renames

2024-01-11T16:47:18Z

‎Hashing Out Renames: re: renames

Patrick2011b: /* Hashing Out Renames */ sign for Hordes and reply

2024-01-10T19:24:20Z

‎Hashing Out Renames: sign for Hordes and reply

Hordes: /* Hashing Out Renames */

2024-01-10T16:35:34Z

‎Hashing Out Renames

Hordes: /* Hashing Out Renames */ new section

2024-01-10T16:29:32Z

‎Hashing Out Renames: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:25, 16 January 2024
Line 46:		Line 46:
	::::Also, how should talismans/transformations work? I propose moving the old page to [[Statue Form (spell)]] and redirect Statue Form to the talisman.		::::Also, how should talismans/transformations work? I propose moving the old page to [[Statue Form (spell)]] and redirect Statue Form to the talisman.
	::::Alternatively, we could delete the current talisman page, copy/paste the info onto the spell page, and move the spell to the talisman name. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 11:40, 14 January 2024 (CET)		::::Alternatively, we could delete the current talisman page, copy/paste the info onto the spell page, and move the spell to the talisman name. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 11:40, 14 January 2024 (CET)
		+
		+	:::::Yeah, the alternative idea makes more sense (we did something similar for [[Repel Missiles]]). An article about the talisman should be the main one. Everything worth salvaging from [[Statue Form]] should go there, including all the spell's History. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 01:25, 16 January 2024 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:21, 15 January 2024
Line 44:		Line 44:
	:::[[Dispel Undead]] - a player spell page - includes the monster-only Dispel Undead Range already. This looks like a better way of handling such similar spells. We could replace [[Dispel Undead Range]] with a redirect to Dispel_Undead#Monster_Version, because it's just a duplicate. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 13:58, 12 January 2024 (CET)		:::[[Dispel Undead]] - a player spell page - includes the monster-only Dispel Undead Range already. This looks like a better way of handling such similar spells. We could replace [[Dispel Undead Range]] with a redirect to Dispel_Undead#Monster_Version, because it's just a duplicate. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 13:58, 12 January 2024 (CET)

−	::::Also, how should talismans/transformations work? I propose moving the old page to [[Statue Form (spell)]] and redirect Statue Form to the talisman. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 11:40, 14 January 2024 (CET)	+	::::Also, how should talismans/transformations work? I propose moving the old page to [[Statue Form (spell)]] and redirect Statue Form to the talisman.
		+	::::Alternatively, we could delete the current talisman page, copy/paste the info onto the spell page, and move the spell to the talisman name. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 11:40, 14 January 2024 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:40, 14 January 2024
Line 44:		Line 44:
	:::[[Dispel Undead]] - a player spell page - includes the monster-only Dispel Undead Range already. This looks like a better way of handling such similar spells. We could replace [[Dispel Undead Range]] with a redirect to Dispel_Undead#Monster_Version, because it's just a duplicate. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 13:58, 12 January 2024 (CET)		:::[[Dispel Undead]] - a player spell page - includes the monster-only Dispel Undead Range already. This looks like a better way of handling such similar spells. We could replace [[Dispel Undead Range]] with a redirect to Dispel_Undead#Monster_Version, because it's just a duplicate. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 13:58, 12 January 2024 (CET)

−	:::Also, how should talismans/transformations work? I propose ~~splitting~~ the old page to [[Statue Form (spell)]] and redirect Statue Form to the talisman. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 11:40, 14 January 2024 (CET)	+	::::Also, how should talismans/transformations work? I propose moving the old page to [[Statue Form (spell)]] and redirect Statue Form to the talisman. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 11:40, 14 January 2024 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:40, 14 January 2024
Line 43:		Line 43:
	:::I propose to rename Iron Shot to Bombard, add Iron Shot as a sub-section there, and make an Iron_Shot -> Bombard#Iron_Shot redirect. There's no technical limitations: <nowiki>{{monsters with spell\|Bombard}}</nowiki> will show kobolds and Frederick, and <nowiki>{{monsters with spell\|Iron Shot}}</nowiki> will show all other spell users, w/o mixing them.		:::I propose to rename Iron Shot to Bombard, add Iron Shot as a sub-section there, and make an Iron_Shot -> Bombard#Iron_Shot redirect. There's no technical limitations: <nowiki>{{monsters with spell\|Bombard}}</nowiki> will show kobolds and Frederick, and <nowiki>{{monsters with spell\|Iron Shot}}</nowiki> will show all other spell users, w/o mixing them.
	:::[[Dispel Undead]] - a player spell page - includes the monster-only Dispel Undead Range already. This looks like a better way of handling such similar spells. We could replace [[Dispel Undead Range]] with a redirect to Dispel_Undead#Monster_Version, because it's just a duplicate. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 13:58, 12 January 2024 (CET)		:::[[Dispel Undead]] - a player spell page - includes the monster-only Dispel Undead Range already. This looks like a better way of handling such similar spells. We could replace [[Dispel Undead Range]] with a redirect to Dispel_Undead#Monster_Version, because it's just a duplicate. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 13:58, 12 January 2024 (CET)
		+
		+	:::Also, how should talismans/transformations work? I propose splitting the old page to [[Statue Form (spell)]] and redirect Statue Form to the talisman. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 11:40, 14 January 2024 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:58, 12 January 2024
Line 38:		Line 38:

	::Iron Shot v Bombard should definitely be two pages, since they both exist in the same version: Cerebov has Iron Shot, Fredrick has Bombard. Ala something like [[Agony Range]] being its own page. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 07:13, 12 January 2024 (CET)		::Iron Shot v Bombard should definitely be two pages, since they both exist in the same version: Cerebov has Iron Shot, Fredrick has Bombard. Ala something like [[Agony Range]] being its own page. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 07:13, 12 January 2024 (CET)
		+
		+	:::Agony and Agony Range were significantly reworked recently, so they do need a page each, ''now''.
		+	:::Iron Shot and Bombard are too similar. You need two sentences to describe the former spell: "Iron Shot is a monster-only version of Bombard that doesn't have a knockback. It's the same projectile with the same properties." Is there anything else to add?
		+	:::I propose to rename Iron Shot to Bombard, add Iron Shot as a sub-section there, and make an Iron_Shot -> Bombard#Iron_Shot redirect. There's no technical limitations: <nowiki>{{monsters with spell\|Bombard}}</nowiki> will show kobolds and Frederick, and <nowiki>{{monsters with spell\|Iron Shot}}</nowiki> will show all other spell users, w/o mixing them.
		+	:::[[Dispel Undead]] - a player spell page - includes the monster-only Dispel Undead Range already. This looks like a better way of handling such similar spells. We could replace [[Dispel Undead Range]] with a redirect to Dispel_Undead#Monster_Version, because it's just a duplicate. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 13:58, 12 January 2024 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:13, 12 January 2024
Line 36:		Line 36:

	:re: spells. Bolt of Fire and Starburst need two pages, since they have different range, number of beams, and free/fixed targeting. But I'll be fine with Iron Shot and Bombard sharing the same page, as they are very close. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 17:47, 11 January 2024 (CET)		:re: spells. Bolt of Fire and Starburst need two pages, since they have different range, number of beams, and free/fixed targeting. But I'll be fine with Iron Shot and Bombard sharing the same page, as they are very close. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 17:47, 11 January 2024 (CET)
		+
		+	::Iron Shot v Bombard should definitely be two pages, since they both exist in the same version: Cerebov has Iron Shot, Fredrick has Bombard. Ala something like [[Agony Range]] being its own page. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 07:13, 12 January 2024 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:47, 11 January 2024
Line 30:		Line 30:
	*Monsters: If it was ''just'' a rename, or only slight mechanical changes, then it should redirect. Otherwise new page. --[[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]])		*Monsters: If it was ''just'' a rename, or only slight mechanical changes, then it should redirect. Otherwise new page. --[[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]])
	:Those positions generally make sense, and I'm in favor of adding this to the style guide. The part about unrands is a little unclear. I checked the list of unrands to see how the wiki handled them in the past, and I found that the [[Ring of the Tortoise]] was renamed from [[ring of Robustness]] in 0.26. The old name redirects to the new name, which is consistent with how other items are handled, so I say we keep doing that for items without significant changes. [[User:Patrick2011b\|Patrick2011b]] ([[User talk:Patrick2011b\|talk]]) 20:24, 10 January 2024 (CET)		:Those positions generally make sense, and I'm in favor of adding this to the style guide. The part about unrands is a little unclear. I checked the list of unrands to see how the wiki handled them in the past, and I found that the [[Ring of the Tortoise]] was renamed from [[ring of Robustness]] in 0.26. The old name redirects to the new name, which is consistent with how other items are handled, so I say we keep doing that for items without significant changes. [[User:Patrick2011b\|Patrick2011b]] ([[User talk:Patrick2011b\|talk]]) 20:24, 10 January 2024 (CET)
		+
		+	:re: species/backgrounds. "Recognized by the bot" is a definitive way to tell if something's new or just a rename. But note that it takes some time for the bot to update, and we can get a confirmation from the devs much faster, as was done with Oni. The species was added 20-something days ago, but the Sequell ("bot") [https://github.com/crawl/sequell/commit/a0e6801f63cc23bd4bf27ba01cf2699828f64e89 commit] was done only yesterday. And the bot is not updated automatically after each new commit, so it'll take some time for Oni to appear in Sequell "properly" (you can see the current official list of species via <code>!kw playable:sp</code>.
		+
		+	:re: unrands. The current way is to use the Move button when an unrand is renamed. It'll make a redirect for the old name and make redirects for all the linked images, etc. Creating a new page ''manually'' and then adding redirects is just an unnecessary busywork.
		+
		+	:re: spells. Bolt of Fire and Starburst need two pages, since they have different range, number of beams, and free/fixed targeting. But I'll be fine with Iron Shot and Bombard sharing the same page, as they are very close. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 17:47, 11 January 2024 (CET)

@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 *Other items: Make redirects so that readers are least surprised. So [[hand crossbow]] should redirect to [[hand cannon]], they share an identical role. Same with [[potion of flight]] and [[potion of enlightenment]]. But [[potion of agility]] and [[potion of attraction]] are two separate things.
 *Spells: If a spell still exists for monsters, it definitely gets its own page (e.g. [[Bolt of Fire]]/[[Starburst]], [[Iron Shot]]/[[Bombard]]). Otherwise, follow the least surprise rule: PVapours should redirect to MVapours.
-*Monsters: If it was ''just'' a rename, or only slight mechanical changes, then it should redirect. Otherwise new page.
+*Monsters: If it was ''just'' a rename, or only slight mechanical changes, then it should redirect. Otherwise new page. --[[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]])

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 *[[Species]]/[[Background]]s: There's an official stance: if bot commands recognize them as different species, they get different pages.
 *[[Unrand]]s: If the name changes, it gets a new page.
-*Items: Make redirects so that readers are least surprised. So [[hand crossbow]] should redirect to [[hand cannon]], they share an identical role. Same with [[potion of flight]] and [[potion of enlightenment]]. But [[potion of agility]] and [[potion of attraction]] are two separate things.
+*Other items: Make redirects so that readers are least surprised. So [[hand crossbow]] should redirect to [[hand cannon]], they share an identical role. Same with [[potion of flight]] and [[potion of enlightenment]]. But [[potion of agility]] and [[potion of attraction]] are two separate things.
-*Spells: If a spell still exists for monsters, it definitely gets its own page (e.g. [[Bolt of Fire]], [[Iron Shot]]). Otherwise, follow the least surprise rule.
+*Spells: If a spell still exists for monsters, it definitely gets its own page (e.g. [[Bolt of Fire]]/[[Starburst]], [[Iron Shot]]/[[Bombard]]). Otherwise, follow the least surprise rule: PVapours should redirect to MVapours.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:29, 10 January 2024
Line 19:		Line 19:

	DCSS uses [https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd7d0065d95e4ca3211ac9912b470f8c00fc60fc Australian english] (armour, artefact...), so the wiki should use the same (when talking about terms used in the game). But I'm not very consistent with it, so I default to commonwealth spelling that I know of. Not sure about the rest of grammar, so I defer to somebody else --[[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 02:28, 22 March 2022 (CET)		DCSS uses [https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd7d0065d95e4ca3211ac9912b470f8c00fc60fc Australian english] (armour, artefact...), so the wiki should use the same (when talking about terms used in the game). But I'm not very consistent with it, so I default to commonwealth spelling that I know of. Not sure about the rest of grammar, so I defer to somebody else --[[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 02:28, 22 March 2022 (CET)
		+
		+	== Hashing Out Renames ==
		+
		+	With all the renames in current version (0.31) I think it's best to explicitly state what should be a page move, and what should be two different pages. Here's what I say:
		+
		+	*[[Species]]/[[Background]]s: There's an official stance: if bot commands recognize them as different species, they get different pages.
		+	*[[Unrand]]s: If the name changes, it gets a new page.
		+	*Items: Make redirects so that readers are least surprised. So [[hand crossbow]] should redirect to [[hand cannon]], they share an identical role. Same with [[potion of flight]] and [[potion of enlightenment]]. But [[potion of agility]] and [[potion of attraction]] are two separate things.
		+	*Spells: If a spell still exists for monsters, it definitely gets its own page (e.g. [[Bolt of Fire]], [[Iron Shot]]). Otherwise, follow the least surprise rule.