Talk:Djinni - Revision history

Ge0ff: /* Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude */ Just Do It ™

2023-11-10T20:52:14Z

‎Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude: Just Do It ™

Hordes at 15:43, 10 November 2023

2023-11-10T15:43:08Z

Hordes at 15:39, 10 November 2023

2023-11-10T15:39:57Z

Hordes at 15:38, 10 November 2023

2023-11-10T15:38:01Z

Ge0ff: /* Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude */ +context

2023-11-10T13:43:51Z

‎Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude: +context

Ge0ff: /* Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude */

2023-11-10T13:42:16Z

‎Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude

Ge0ff: /* Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude */ part-2

2023-11-10T13:41:55Z

‎Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude: part-2

Ge0ff: /* Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude */ re: hecto skill points vs. skill points

2023-11-10T13:31:06Z

‎Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude: re: hecto skill points vs. skill points

Hordes at 01:38, 10 November 2023

2023-11-10T01:38:16Z

Hordes: /* Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude */

2023-11-10T01:24:39Z

‎Help explaining the Djinn magic aptitude

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 :::*In [[Skill_point#Specific_mechanics]], the "Skill point cost" column is not measured in skill points either. Also, the numbers in the table and the graph are quite outdated (since 0.28-a0-510-g2e89a317aa). E.g., rising a +0 apt skill from level 23 to 24 has cost = 34.5; for a -1 skill it's 41.0 now, but definitely not 260+, as in the table. [[User:Ge0ff|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff|talk]]) 14:31, 10 November 2023 (CET)
-:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27. [[User:Ge0ff|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff|talk]]) 14:42, 10 November 2023 (CET)
+:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requires only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27. [[User:Ge0ff|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff|talk]]) 14:42, 10 November 2023 (CET)
 ::::RE: XP Cost statement. It's not that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make sense as a statement. It's that it would be hard for a new reader to understand why this is ''relevant'', i.e. why this fact makes Djinn better. In the current example, it states that Kobolds are most efficient at 15 Conjurations, but Djinn are equivalent at 13 Spc. Thus the correlation is implied (15 -> 16 more expensive than 13 -> 14) but not explicitly stated. [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 16:38, 10 November 2023 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:43, 10 November 2023
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	:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:42, 10 November 2023 (CET)		:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:42, 10 November 2023 (CET)

−	::::RE: XP Cost statement. It's not that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make sense. It's that it would be hard for a new reader to understand why this is ''relevant'', i.e. why this fact makes Djinn better. In the current example, it states that Kobolds are most efficient at 15 Conjurations, but Djinn are equivalent at 13 Spc. Thus the correlation is implied (15 -> 16 more expensive than 13 -> 14) but not explicitly stated. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 16:38, 10 November 2023 (CET)	+	::::RE: XP Cost statement. It's not that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make sense as a statement. It's that it would be hard for a new reader to understand why this is ''relevant'', i.e. why this fact makes Djinn better. In the current example, it states that Kobolds are most efficient at 15 Conjurations, but Djinn are equivalent at 13 Spc. Thus the correlation is implied (15 -> 16 more expensive than 13 -> 14) but not explicitly stated. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 16:38, 10 November 2023 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:39, 10 November 2023
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	:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:42, 10 November 2023 (CET)		:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:42, 10 November 2023 (CET)

−	::::RE: XP Cost statement. It's not that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make sense. It's that it would be hard for a new reader to understand why this is ''relevant'', i.e. why this fact makes Djinn better. In the current example, it states that Kobolds ~~want~~ 15 Conjurations but Djinn ~~want~~ 13 Spc. ~~This~~ is implied (15 -> 16 more expensive than 13 -> 14) but not explicitly stated. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 16:38, 10 November 2023 (CET)	+	::::RE: XP Cost statement. It's not that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make sense. It's that it would be hard for a new reader to understand why this is ''relevant'', i.e. why this fact makes Djinn better. In the current example, it states that Kobolds are most efficient at 15 Conjurations, but Djinn are equivalent at 13 Spc. Thus the correlation is implied (15 -> 16 more expensive than 13 -> 14) but not explicitly stated. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 16:38, 10 November 2023 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:38, 10 November 2023
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	:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:42, 10 November 2023 (CET)		:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:42, 10 November 2023 (CET)
		+
		+	::::RE: XP Cost statement. It's not that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make sense. It's that it would be hard for a new reader to understand why this is ''relevant'', i.e. why this fact makes Djinn better. In the current example, it states that Kobolds want 15 Conjurations but Djinn want 13 Spc. This is implied (15 -> 16 more expensive than 13 -> 14) but not explicitly stated. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 16:38, 10 November 2023 (CET)

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 :: I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic. For me, "To maximize power, Kobolds would train to 15 Conjurations. Djinn only need 13 Spellcasting, so their level is lower, so their XP cost is lower" makes sense. But it might not for the average reader. [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 02:10, 10 November 2023 (CET)
 :::*Skill points are stored in an array of integers, <code>you.skill_points[]</code>. If a Dj has 13 Spellcasting, then <code>you.skill_points[SK_SPELLCASTING]</code> is equal to 8072, not 80.72.
 :::*The Cost section of the skills menu is not measured in skill points. It's a ratio, <code>one_level_cost() / skill_cost_baseline()</code>, where the numerator and denominator have the same unit of measurement, XP (see scaled_skill_cost() in skills.cc).

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:42, 10 November 2023
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	:::*In [[Skill_point#Specific_mechanics]], the "Skill point cost" column is not measured in skill points either. Also, the numbers in the table and the graph are quite outdated (since 0.28-a0-510-g2e89a317aa). E.g., rising a +0 apt skill from level 23 to 24 has cost = 34.5; for a -1 skill it's 41.0 now, but definitely not 260+, as in the table. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:31, 10 November 2023 (CET)		:::*In [[Skill_point#Specific_mechanics]], the "Skill point cost" column is not measured in skill points either. Also, the numbers in the table and the graph are quite outdated (since 0.28-a0-510-g2e89a317aa). E.g., rising a +0 apt skill from level 23 to 24 has cost = 34.5; for a -1 skill it's 41.0 now, but definitely not 260+, as in the table. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:31, 10 November 2023 (CET)

−	:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27.	+	:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:42, 10 November 2023 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:41, 10 November 2023
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	:::*The Cost section of the skills menu is not measured in skill points. It's a ratio, <code>one_level_cost() / skill_cost_baseline()</code>, where the numerator and denominator have the same unit of measurement, XP (see scaled_skill_cost() in skills.cc).		:::*The Cost section of the skills menu is not measured in skill points. It's a ratio, <code>one_level_cost() / skill_cost_baseline()</code>, where the numerator and denominator have the same unit of measurement, XP (see scaled_skill_cost() in skills.cc).
	:::*In [[Skill_point#Specific_mechanics]], the "Skill point cost" column is not measured in skill points either. Also, the numbers in the table and the graph are quite outdated (since 0.28-a0-510-g2e89a317aa). E.g., rising a +0 apt skill from level 23 to 24 has cost = 34.5; for a -1 skill it's 41.0 now, but definitely not 260+, as in the table. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:31, 10 November 2023 (CET)		:::*In [[Skill_point#Specific_mechanics]], the "Skill point cost" column is not measured in skill points either. Also, the numbers in the table and the graph are quite outdated (since 0.28-a0-510-g2e89a317aa). E.g., rising a +0 apt skill from level 23 to 24 has cost = 34.5; for a -1 skill it's 41.0 now, but definitely not 260+, as in the table. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:31, 10 November 2023 (CET)
		+
		+	:::"I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic." No, it does make sense, even if you don't know much about the skills system. It requres only a minimal observation skill from the player/reader. It's easy to spot the difference between drinking a potion of xp at xl 1 and xl 27, or between killing Sigmund at xl 2 vs. xl 27.

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:31, 10 November 2023
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	:: I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic. For me, "To maximize power, Kobolds would train to 15 Conjurations. Djinn only need 13 Spellcasting, so their level is lower, so their XP cost is lower" makes sense. But it might not for the average reader. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 02:10, 10 November 2023 (CET)		:: I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic. For me, "To maximize power, Kobolds would train to 15 Conjurations. Djinn only need 13 Spellcasting, so their level is lower, so their XP cost is lower" makes sense. But it might not for the average reader. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 02:10, 10 November 2023 (CET)
		+
		+	:::*Skill points are stored in an array of integers, <code>you.skill_points[]</code>. If a Dj has 13 Spellcasting, then <code>you.skill_points[SK_SPELLCASTING]</code> is equal to 8072, not 80.72.
		+	:::*The Cost section of the skills menu is not measured in skill points. It's a ratio, <code>one_level_cost() / skill_cost_baseline()</code>, where the numerator and denominator have the same unit of measurement, XP (see scaled_skill_cost() in skills.cc).
		+	:::*In [[Skill_point#Specific_mechanics]], the "Skill point cost" column is not measured in skill points either. Also, the numbers in the table and the graph are quite outdated (since 0.28-a0-510-g2e89a317aa). E.g., rising a +0 apt skill from level 23 to 24 has cost = 34.5; for a -1 skill it's 41.0 now, but definitely not 260+, as in the table. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 14:31, 10 November 2023 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:38, 10 November 2023
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	:: I think we should use the 1/100 scale for skill points, because that is how it's displayed in game outside wizmode (the "Cost" section), and what the [[skill point]] article uses. I think it's better to change manual / [[Ru]] / (other pages) with the 1/100 scale.		:: I think we should use the 1/100 scale for skill points, because that is how it's displayed in game outside wizmode (the "Cost" section), and what the [[skill point]] article uses. I think it's better to change manual / [[Ru]] / (other pages) with the 1/100 scale.

−	:: I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you~~'re super in-depth~~. ~~Like I want to explain that~~ "to maximize power, ~~a regular species wants~~ to ~~train low~~ Spellcasting, ~~high <Spell School>. Because <Spell Schools> are trained to a high~~ level, ~~they get relatively more expensive when compared to Djinn, who trains both Spellcasting and <Spell Schools>~~." But ~~I think that is a bit wordy. Plus, players train Spellcasting past max power-point in practice, so~~ it~~'d have to explain that too~~. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 02:10, 10 November 2023 (CET)	+	:: I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you already know about the topic. For me, "To maximize power, Kobolds would train to 15 Conjurations. Djinn only need 13 Spellcasting, so their level is lower, so their XP cost is lower" makes sense. But it might not for the average reader. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 02:10, 10 November 2023 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:24, 10 November 2023
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	:: I think we should use the 1/100 scale for skill points, because that is how it's displayed in game outside wizmode (the "Cost" section), and what the [[skill point]] article uses. I think it's better to change manual / [[Ru]] / (other pages) with the 1/100 scale.		:: I think we should use the 1/100 scale for skill points, because that is how it's displayed in game outside wizmode (the "Cost" section), and what the [[skill point]] article uses. I think it's better to change manual / [[Ru]] / (other pages) with the 1/100 scale.

−	:: I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you're super in-depth. Like I want to explain that "to maximize power, a regular species wants to train low Spellcasting, high <Spell School>. Because <Spell Schools> are trained to a high level, they get relatively more expensive when compared to Djinn, who trains both Spellcasting and <Spell Schools>." But I think that is a bit ~~word~~. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 02:10, 10 November 2023 (CET)	+	:: I also think that "XP cost rises as level rises" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you're super in-depth. Like I want to explain that "to maximize power, a regular species wants to train low Spellcasting, high <Spell School>. Because <Spell Schools> are trained to a high level, they get relatively more expensive when compared to Djinn, who trains both Spellcasting and <Spell Schools>." But I think that is a bit wordy. Plus, players train Spellcasting past max power-point in practice, so it'd have to explain that too. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 02:10, 10 November 2023 (CET)