Talk:Flaming - Revision history

Hordes: rw an old point so that it's easier to read

2024-01-11T12:32:10Z

rw an old point so that it's easier to read

Hordes: what i am tying to calculate

2023-11-28T22:18:30Z

what i am tying to calculate

Ge0ff: what are you trying to calculate?

2023-11-28T22:04:19Z

what are you trying to calculate?

Hordes at 17:58, 27 November 2023

2023-11-27T17:58:05Z

Hordes at 17:53, 27 November 2023

2023-11-27T17:53:45Z

Hordes at 17:48, 27 November 2023

2023-11-27T17:48:41Z

Hordes at 17:45, 27 November 2023

2023-11-27T17:45:54Z

Hordes at 17:43, 27 November 2023

2023-11-27T17:43:46Z

Hordes at 17:18, 27 November 2023

2023-11-27T17:18:56Z

Ge0ff: re: apples to oranges

2023-11-27T16:36:32Z

re: apples to oranges

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 :"it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing" This makes no '''practical''' sense, regardless of how the game calculates weapon damage. [[User:Ge0ff|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff|talk]]) 17:36, 27 November 2023 (CET)
-::Re: "it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing", that meant something along the lines of "do quickblades receive a less than an avg. 25% boost from the flaming brand?" a.k.a "is ''flaming'' on a quickblade a smaller % boost than ''flaming'' on an exe's axe?".
+::Re: "it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing." That meant something along the lines of "do quickblades receive a less than an avg. 25% boost from the flaming brand?" a.k.a "is ''flaming'' on a quickblade a smaller % boost than ''flaming'' on an exe's axe?".
-::E.g. say the game rolled a number from 1/100 to 50/100, multiplied it, then rounded down. If you got 25/100, a given quickblade swing might go from 7 -> 8 (14% boost) from flaming. A similar executioner's axe swing might go from 19 -> 23 (+21% boost) from flaming. Therefore, short blades would get a smaller % boost. This ''would'' make a practical difference, like if you wanted to compare flaming QB v elec QB. At the least, it'd be enough to be worth noting on here.
+::For example, say flaming gave a multiplicative bonus of <code>1 + uniform(50)/100</code>, rounded down, just like how [[weapon damage]] works. If you got a 25/100, a quickblade could go from 7 dmg -> 8 (14% boost). An executioner's axe might go from 19 -> 23 (+21% boost). Therefore the axe gets a bigger boost. In practice, this matters when comparing brands, e.g. +9 flaming vs +5 elec quickblade.
-::But with the code provided, I don't think the rounding works as it was above. Assuming no resistances:
+::However, with the code provided, I don't think the rounding works as I stated above. Assuming no resistances:
 ::*A QB of flaming that dealt 7 damage would have a range of {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} from the random2 function.
-::*C++ defaults to round down, and resist_adjust_damage() doesn't have any special rounding that I found. So random2(7)/2 + 1 would be rounded down. This gives a range of {0,0,1,1,2,2,3} + 1
+::*C++ defaults to round down, and resist_adjust_damage() doesn't have any special rounding that I can see. So random2(7)/2 + 1 would be rounded down. This gives a range of {0,0,1,1,2,2,3} + 1.
 ::*Average damage is (0+0+1+1+2+2+3)/7 + 1 = 1.286 + 1 = 2.286. Then, 2.286 (added damage) / 7 (base damage) = +32.65% damage on average.
-::Maybe this is worth mentioning? [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 18:45, 27 November 2023 (CET)
+::Maybe this is worth mentioning? [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 18:45, 27 November 2023 (CET) [updated 1/11/24]
 :::Re: "+32.65% damage on average." If you had a qb of flaming that ''always'' did 7 raw damage, then you'd get +32.65% damage on average from the fire brand. [[User:Ge0ff|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff|talk]]) 23:04, 28 November 2023 (CET)
 ::::Sorry for being confusing. The calculated 32.65% is greater than the "average 25%" damage the page currently states. This applies to any low damage value, not just 7. I am trying to ask 1. did i miss anything, and 2. is this fact worth adding the pages.

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:18, 28 November 2023
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	:::Re: "+32.65% damage on average." If you had a qb of flaming that ''always'' did 7 raw damage, then you'd get +32.65% damage on average from the fire brand. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 23:04, 28 November 2023 (CET)		:::Re: "+32.65% damage on average." If you had a qb of flaming that ''always'' did 7 raw damage, then you'd get +32.65% damage on average from the fire brand. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 23:04, 28 November 2023 (CET)
		+
		+	::::Sorry for being confusing. The calculated 32.65% is greater than the "average 25%" damage the page currently states. This applies to any low damage value, not just 7. I am trying to ask 1. did i miss anything, and 2. is this fact worth adding the pages.

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:04, 28 November 2023
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	::*Average damage is (0+0+1+1+2+2+3)/7 + 1 = 1.286 + 1 = 2.286. Then, 2.286 (added damage) / 7 (base damage) = +32.65% damage on average.		::*Average damage is (0+0+1+1+2+2+3)/7 + 1 = 1.286 + 1 = 2.286. Then, 2.286 (added damage) / 7 (base damage) = +32.65% damage on average.
	::Maybe this is worth mentioning? [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 18:45, 27 November 2023 (CET)		::Maybe this is worth mentioning? [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 18:45, 27 November 2023 (CET)
		+
		+	:::Re: "+32.65% damage on average." If you had a qb of flaming that ''always'' did 7 raw damage, then you'd get +32.65% damage on average from the fire brand. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 23:04, 28 November 2023 (CET)

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 ::Re: "it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing", that meant something along the lines of "do quickblades receive a less than an avg. 25% boost from the flaming brand?" a.k.a "is ''flaming'' on a quickblade a smaller % boost than ''flaming'' on an exe's axe?".
-::E.g. say the game rolled a number from 1/100 to 50/100, multiplied it, then rounded down. If you got 25/100, a given quickblade swing might go from 7 -> 8 (14% boost) while a similar executioner's axe swing might go from 19 -> 23 (+21% boost). Therefore, short blades would get a smaller % boost. This ''would'' make a practical difference, or at least, enough to be worth noting on here.
+::E.g. say the game rolled a number from 1/100 to 50/100, multiplied it, then rounded down. If you got 25/100, a given quickblade swing might go from 7 -> 8 (14% boost) from flaming. A similar executioner's axe swing might go from 19 -> 23 (+21% boost) from flaming. Therefore, short blades would get a smaller % boost. This ''would'' make a practical difference, like if you wanted to compare flaming QB v elec QB. At the least, it'd be enough to be worth noting on here.
-::But with the code provided, I don't think the rounding problem I presented is a problem - assuming no resistances.
+::But with the code provided, I don't think the rounding works as it was above. Assuming no resistances:
-::*A QB that dealt 7 damage would have a range of {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} from the random2 function.
+::*A QB of flaming that dealt 7 damage would have a range of {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} from the random2 function.
 ::*C++ defaults to round down, and resist_adjust_damage() doesn't have any special rounding that I found. So random2(7)/2 + 1 would be rounded down. This gives a range of {0,0,1,1,2,2,3} + 1
 ::*Average damage is (0+0+1+1+2+2+3)/7 + 1 = 1.286 + 1 = 2.286. Then, 2.286 (added damage) / 7 (base damage) = +32.65% damage on average.
 ::Maybe this is worth mentioning? [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 18:45, 27 November 2023 (CET)

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 :"it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing" This makes no '''practical''' sense, regardless of how the game calculates weapon damage. [[User:Ge0ff|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff|talk]]) 17:36, 27 November 2023 (CET)
-::Re: "it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing", that meant something along the lines of "do quickblades receive a less than an avg. 25% boost from the flaming brand?" a.k.a "is ''flaming'' on a quickblade a smaller % bosost than ''flaming'' on an exe's axe".
+::Re: "it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing", that meant something along the lines of "do quickblades receive a less than an avg. 25% boost from the flaming brand?" a.k.a "is ''flaming'' on a quickblade a smaller % boost than ''flaming'' on an exe's axe?".
-::E.g. say the game rolled a number from 1/100 to 50/100, multiplied it, then rounded down. A given quickblade swing might go from 7 -> 8 (14% boost) while a similar executioner's axe swing might go from 19 -> 23 (+21% boost). If it rounds down, then flaming/freezing/etc. have a smaller % boost with short blades and co. This ''would'' make a practical difference, like if you wanted to compare venom v flaming for a quickblade.
+::E.g. say the game rolled a number from 1/100 to 50/100, multiplied it, then rounded down. If you got 25/100, a given quickblade swing might go from 7 -> 8 (14% boost) while a similar executioner's axe swing might go from 19 -> 23 (+21% boost). Therefore, short blades would get a smaller % boost. This ''would'' make a practical difference, or at least, enough to be worth noting on here.
-::With the code provided, I don't think the rounding problem I presented matters, assuming no resistances.
+::But with the code provided, I don't think the rounding problem I presented is a problem - assuming no resistances.
 ::*A QB that dealt 7 damage would have a range of {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} from the random2 function.
 ::*C++ defaults to round down, and resist_adjust_damage() doesn't have any special rounding that I found. So random2(7)/2 + 1 would be rounded down. This gives a range of {0,0,1,1,2,2,3} + 1
 ::*Average damage is (0+0+1+1+2+2+3)/7 + 1 = 1.286 + 1 = 2.286. Then, 2.286 (added damage) / 7 (base damage) = +32.65% damage on average.
-::[[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 18:45, 27 November 2023 (CET)
+::Maybe this is worth mentioning? [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 18:45, 27 November 2023 (CET)

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 :"it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing" This makes no '''practical''' sense, regardless of how the game calculates weapon damage. [[User:Ge0ff|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff|talk]]) 17:36, 27 November 2023 (CET)
-::Re: "it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing", that meant something along the lines of "do quickblades receive a less than an avg. 25% boost from the flaming brand?" a.k.a "is ''flaming'' on a quickblade less helpful than ''flaming'' on an exe's axe".
+::Re: "it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing", that meant something along the lines of "do quickblades receive a less than an avg. 25% boost from the flaming brand?" a.k.a "is ''flaming'' on a quickblade less damage than ''flaming'' on an exe's axe".
-::E.g. say the game rolled a number from 1/100 to 50/100, multiplied it, then rounded down. A given quickblade swing might go from 7 -> 8 (14% boost) while a similar executioner's axe swing might go from 19 -> 23 (+21% boost). If it rounds down, then flaming/freezing/etc. have a smaller % boost with short blades and co. This ''does'' make a practical difference, like if you wanted to compare venom v flaming for a quickblade.
+::E.g. say the game rolled a number from 1/100 to 50/100, multiplied it, then rounded down. A given quickblade swing might go from 7 -> 8 (14% boost) while a similar executioner's axe swing might go from 19 -> 23 (+21% boost). If it rounds down, then flaming/freezing/etc. have a smaller % boost with short blades and co. This ''would'' make a practical difference, like if you wanted to compare venom v flaming for a quickblade.
-::With the code provided, I don't think the rounding problem I presented matters (before resistances).
+::With the code provided, I don't think the rounding problem I presented matters, assuming no resistances.
 :*A QB that dealt 7 damage would have a range of {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} from the random2 function.
-:*C++ defaults to round down, and resist_adjust_damage() doesn't have any special rounding that I found. So this range would be divided by 2 and rounded down, or {0,0,1,1,2,2,3} + 1
+:*C++ defaults to round down, and resist_adjust_damage() doesn't have any special rounding that I found. So random2(7)/2 + 1 would be rounded down. This gives a range of {0,0,1,1,2,2,3} + 1
-:*Average damage is (0+0+1+1+2+2+3}/7 + 1 = 1.286 + 1 ->  2.286. So 2.286 (added damage) / 7 (base damage) = +32.65% damage on average.
+:*Average damage is (0+0+1+1+2+2+3)/7 + 1 = 1.286 + 1 ->  2.286. So 2.286 (added damage) / 7 (base damage) = +32.65% damage on average.

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:18, 27 November 2023
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	:"it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing" This makes no '''practical''' sense, regardless of how the game calculates weapon damage. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 17:36, 27 November 2023 (CET)		:"it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing" This makes no '''practical''' sense, regardless of how the game calculates weapon damage. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 17:36, 27 November 2023 (CET)
		+
		+	::Re: "it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing", that meant something along the lines of "do quickblades receive a less than 25% boost from the flaming brand?"
		+
		+	:: E.g. say the game rounds down. A quickblade swing might go from 7 -> 8 (14% boost) while the same executioner's axe swing might go from 19 -> 23 (+21% boost). If it rounds down, then flaming/freezing/etc. have a smaller % boost with short blades and co. This ''does'' make a practical difference, like if you wanted to compare venom v flaming for a quickblade.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:36, 27 November 2023
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	:Start at apply_damage_brand() in attack.cc, and check for <code>case SPWPN_FLAMING:</code>. It has a call to calc_elemental_brand_damage() there, which does <code>special_damage = resist_adjust_damage(defender, flavour, random2(damage_done) / 2 + 1);</code>, which is flaming's +0-50% damage. Then there's a check for the target's resists in resist_adjust_damage(), and so on and so forth. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 17:32, 27 November 2023 (CET)		:Start at apply_damage_brand() in attack.cc, and check for <code>case SPWPN_FLAMING:</code>. It has a call to calc_elemental_brand_damage() there, which does <code>special_damage = resist_adjust_damage(defender, flavour, random2(damage_done) / 2 + 1);</code>, which is flaming's +0-50% damage. Then there's a check for the target's resists in resist_adjust_damage(), and so on and so forth. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 17:32, 27 November 2023 (CET)
		+
		+	:"it makes quickblade of flaming worse than an executioner's axe of freezing" This makes no '''practical''' sense, regardless of how the game calculates weapon damage. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 17:36, 27 November 2023 (CET)