Talk:Heavy - Revision history

Hordes: /* Strategy */

2023-02-22T00:56:59Z

‎Strategy

Hordes: /* Strategy */

2023-02-22T00:56:11Z

‎Strategy

Hordes at 00:50, 22 February 2023

2023-02-22T00:50:48Z

Ge0ff: re: strategy section draft

2023-02-21T14:38:49Z

re: strategy section draft

Hordes: less technical

2023-02-20T16:12:35Z

less technical

Hordes: /* Strategy */

2023-02-20T16:08:50Z

‎Strategy

Hordes: /* Strategy */

2023-02-20T16:04:59Z

‎Strategy

Hordes: /* Strategy */

2023-02-20T16:03:57Z

‎Strategy

Hordes: /* Strategy */

2023-02-20T16:03:04Z

‎Strategy

Hordes: /* Strategy */ new section

2023-02-20T15:47:09Z

‎Strategy: new section

New page

== Strategy ==

I'm just gonna put a draft here for what I'd put in the tips & tricks / strategy section. I'm admittedly ''very'' biased on the subject so feedback is advised. [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 16:47, 20 February 2023 (CET)

===Strategy===
In theory, heavy can be an ''incredibly'' risky brand, due to the importance of reaching 1.0 attack delay. A weapon with [[min delay]] 0.7 would now have a min delay of 1.05 [[decaAut]]. This represents a 5% chance of a regular speed enemy double-turning you.

With 2 turns, a [[deep elf annihilator]] can maxroll 2 [[crystal spear]]s for 204 damage, which can instantly kill most characters for most parts of the game. Deep elf annihilators have a 0.002% to maxroll a single crystal spear, which is further reduced by [[AC]] / [[EV]] / [[SH]], and most enemies won't be that dangerous. But monsters don't come alone. When multiple monsters get a double-turn on you, things can go sour very quickly. Even if they aren't maxrolls, a few high rolls can end your run, or at least force consumable usage.

Weapons with 0.6 or 0.5 mindelay, like [[demon blade]]s, [[demon trident]]s, and [[Short Blades]], can reach a post-heavy mindelay below 1.0. The dangers of heavy are mostly negated.

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 :: As I understand it, skills have the same proportional effect with heavy as with flaming/freezing.
-:* Flaming increases damage by 25% after AC, so it will increase your skills' damage by 25%. If skill gives you +5 pre-brand damage, flaming increases it to 6.25 "skill damage".
+::* Flaming increases damage by 25% after AC, so it will increase your skills' damage by 25%. If skill gives you +5 pre-brand damage, flaming increases it to 6.25 "skill damage".
 :* Heavy increases damage by (180% / 150%)  Skill would have the same multiplier to your damage, so it is the same multiplier.(?) If skill gives you +5 pre-brand damage, heavy increases it to +9. But then it's done 50% slower, for a total of 6 "skill damage".
 ::Deep elf annihilator is used specifically because it can kill you in 1 round, and that really gets the message across. Feel free to change that later. Otherwise implemented. [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 01:50, 22 February 2023 (CET)

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 With all that being said, heavy offers a slightly weaker damage boost than [[flaming]] or [[freezing]], but has the benefit of being irresistable. In addition, heavy is less impacted by AC, slaying, and enchantment. In an average situation, heavy is a competitive brand with flaming or freezing - assuming you are past the early game (early on, low accuracy makes heavy a risky brand). Heavy can also be a great brand if it's on a weapon below 0.7 min delay, for the reasons stated above.
+----
 :This looks quite reasonable. I've got only two suggestions:
@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 *If we don't want to scare players away from the brand, it's worth pointing the benefits too. A better base damage means that your Damage Rating increases faster with skills. Also, you'll get fewer "You hit a <high AC enemy> with your weapon, but do no damage." [[User:Ge0ff|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff|talk]]) 15:38, 21 February 2023 (CET)
-:: As I understand it, skills have the same proportional effect with heavy as with flaming/freezing. Flaming increases damage by 25% after AC, so it will increase your skills' damage by 25%. Heavy increases damage by (180% / 150%). Skill would have the same multiplier to your damage, so it is the same multiplier.(?)
+:: As I understand it, skills have the same proportional effect with heavy as with flaming/freezing.
 ::Deep elf annihilator is used specifically because it can kill you in 1 round, and that really gets the message across. Feel free to change that later. Otherwise implemented. [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 01:50, 22 February 2023 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:50, 22 February 2023
Line 16:		Line 16:
	*It might be better to illustrate the dangers of getting two attacks using an earlier and more common enemy, like a death yak. Compared to annihilators who have a bunch of spells, death yaks just move and attack. So the players are more likely to notice death yaks' 30 max damage turning into 30x2.		*It might be better to illustrate the dangers of getting two attacks using an earlier and more common enemy, like a death yak. Compared to annihilators who have a bunch of spells, death yaks just move and attack. So the players are more likely to notice death yaks' 30 max damage turning into 30x2.
	*If we don't want to scare players away from the brand, it's worth pointing the benefits too. A better base damage means that your Damage Rating increases faster with skills. Also, you'll get fewer "You hit a <high AC enemy> with your weapon, but do no damage." [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 15:38, 21 February 2023 (CET)		*If we don't want to scare players away from the brand, it's worth pointing the benefits too. A better base damage means that your Damage Rating increases faster with skills. Also, you'll get fewer "You hit a <high AC enemy> with your weapon, but do no damage." [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 15:38, 21 February 2023 (CET)
		+
		+	:: As I understand it, skills have the same proportional effect with heavy as with flaming/freezing. Flaming increases damage by 25% after AC, so it will increase your skills' damage by 25%. Heavy increases damage by (180% / 150%). Skill would have the same multiplier to your damage, so it is the same multiplier.(?)
		+
		+	::Deep elf annihilator is used specifically because it can kill you in 1 round, and that really gets the message across. Feel free to change that later. Otherwise implemented. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 01:50, 22 February 2023 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:38, 21 February 2023
Line 11:		Line 11:

	With all that being said, heavy offers a slightly weaker damage boost than [[flaming]] or [[freezing]], but has the benefit of being irresistable. In addition, heavy is less impacted by AC, slaying, and enchantment. In an average situation, heavy is a competitive brand with flaming or freezing - assuming you are past the early game (early on, low accuracy makes heavy a risky brand). Heavy can also be a great brand if it's on a weapon below 0.7 min delay, for the reasons stated above.		With all that being said, heavy offers a slightly weaker damage boost than [[flaming]] or [[freezing]], but has the benefit of being irresistable. In addition, heavy is less impacted by AC, slaying, and enchantment. In an average situation, heavy is a competitive brand with flaming or freezing - assuming you are past the early game (early on, low accuracy makes heavy a risky brand). Heavy can also be a great brand if it's on a weapon below 0.7 min delay, for the reasons stated above.
		+
		+	:This looks quite reasonable. I've got only two suggestions:
		+
		+	*It might be better to illustrate the dangers of getting two attacks using an earlier and more common enemy, like a death yak. Compared to annihilators who have a bunch of spells, death yaks just move and attack. So the players are more likely to notice death yaks' 30 max damage turning into 30x2.
		+	*If we don't want to scare players away from the brand, it's worth pointing the benefits too. A better base damage means that your Damage Rating increases faster with skills. Also, you'll get fewer "You hit a <high AC enemy> with your weapon, but do no damage." [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 15:38, 21 February 2023 (CET)

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 ===Strategy===
-In theory, heavy can be an ''incredibly'' risky brand, due to the importance of reaching 1.0 attack delay. A weapon with [[minimum delay]] of 0.7 would now have a delay of 1.05 [[decaAut]]. This represents a 5% chance of a regular speed enemy double-turning you.
+In theory, heavy can be an ''incredibly'' risky brand, due to the importance of reaching 1.0 attack delay. A weapon with [[minimum delay]] of 0.7 would now have a delay of 1.05 [[decaAut]]. This represents a 5% chance of a regular speed enemy getting a double-turn of attacks.
-With 2 turns, a [[deep elf annihilator]] can maxroll 2 [[crystal spear]]s for 204 damage, which can instantly kill most characters for most parts of the game. Deep elf annihilators have a 0.002% to maxroll a single crystal spear, which is further reduced by [[AC]] / [[EV]] / [[SH]], and most enemies won't be that dangerous. But monsters don't come alone. When multiple monsters get a double-turn on you, things can go sour very quickly. Even if they aren't maxrolls, a few high rolls can end your run, or at least force consumable usage.
+With 2 turns, a [[deep elf annihilator]] can hit you with 2 [[crystal spear]]s for a maximum 204 damage, enough to instantly kill most characters for most parts of the game. Deep elf annihilators have a 0.002% to maxroll a single crystal spear, which is further reduced by [[AC]] / [[EV]] / [[SH]], and most enemies won't be that dangerous. But most enemies don't come alone. When multiple monsters get a double-turn on you, things can go sour very quickly. Even if they aren't a maximum roll, a few high damage attacks can end your run, or at least force you to use [[scroll]]s or [[potion]]s.
 Weapons below 0.7 minimum delay, like [[demon blade]]s, [[demon trident]]s, and [[Short Blades]], can reach a post-heavy mindelay below 1.0. Therefore, the dangers of heavy are mostly negated. Watch out for [[shield]]s, which can bring delay back up beyond 1.0.
 With all that being said, heavy offers a slightly weaker damage boost than [[flaming]] or [[freezing]], but has the benefit of being irresistable. In addition, heavy is less impacted by AC, slaying, and enchantment. In an average situation, heavy is a competitive brand with flaming or freezing - assuming you are past the early game (early on, low accuracy makes heavy a risky brand). Heavy can also be a great brand if it's on a weapon below 0.7 min delay, for the reasons stated above.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:03, 20 February 2023
Line 10:		Line 10:
	Weapons with 0.6 or 0.5 mindelay, like [[demon blade]]s, [[demon trident]]s, and [[Short Blades]], can reach a post-heavy mindelay below 1.0. Therefore, the dangers of heavy are mostly negated. Watch out for [[shield]]s, which can bring delay back up beyond 1.0.		Weapons with 0.6 or 0.5 mindelay, like [[demon blade]]s, [[demon trident]]s, and [[Short Blades]], can reach a post-heavy mindelay below 1.0. Therefore, the dangers of heavy are mostly negated. Watch out for [[shield]]s, which can bring delay back up beyond 1.0.

−	With all that being said, heavy offers a slightly weaker damage boost than [[flaming]] or [[freezing]]~~. Heavy~~ has the benefit of being irresistable ~~and~~ less impacted by ~~both~~ slaying and AC. In an average situation, heavy is a competitive brand with flaming or freezing - assuming you are past the early game (early on, low accuracy makes heavy a risky brand). Heavy can also be a great brand if it's on a weapon below 0.7 min delay, for the reasons stated above.	+	With all that being said, heavy offers a slightly weaker damage boost than [[flaming]] or [[freezing]], but has the benefit of being irresistable. In addition, heavy is less impacted by AC, slaying, and enchantment. In an average situation, heavy is a competitive brand with flaming or freezing - assuming you are past the early game (early on, low accuracy makes heavy a risky brand). Heavy can also be a great brand if it's on a weapon below 0.7 min delay, for the reasons stated above.

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 ===Strategy===
-In theory, heavy can be an ''incredibly'' risky brand, due to the importance of reaching 1.0 attack delay. A weapon with [[min delay]] 0.7 would now have a min delay of 1.05 [[decaAut]]. This represents a 5% chance of a regular speed enemy double-turning you.
+In theory, heavy can be an ''incredibly'' risky brand, due to the importance of reaching 1.0 attack delay. A weapon with [[minimum delay]] 0.7 would now have a min delay of 1.05 [[decaAut]]. This represents a 5% chance of a regular speed enemy double-turning you.
 With 2 turns, a [[deep elf annihilator]] can maxroll 2 [[crystal spear]]s for 204 damage, which can instantly kill most characters for most parts of the game. Deep elf annihilators have a 0.002% to maxroll a single crystal spear, which is further reduced by [[AC]] / [[EV]] / [[SH]], and most enemies won't be that dangerous. But monsters don't come alone. When multiple monsters get a double-turn on you, things can go sour very quickly. Even if they aren't maxrolls, a few high rolls can end your run, or at least force consumable usage.
-Weapons with 0.6 or 0.5 mindelay, like [[demon blade]]s, [[demon trident]]s, and [[Short Blades]], can reach a post-heavy mindelay below 1.0. The dangers of heavy are mostly negated.
+Weapons with 0.6 or 0.5 mindelay, like [[demon blade]]s, [[demon trident]]s, and [[Short Blades]], can reach a post-heavy mindelay below 1.0. Therefore, the dangers of heavy are mostly negated. Watch out for [[shield]]s, which can bring delay back up beyond 1.0.