User talk:Ge0ff - Revision history

Ge0ff: /* Fambida's comment */ new section

2025-06-09T12:04:47Z

‎Fambida's comment: new section

Hordes: /* Re: "badwiki" */ +1 quote

2023-11-30T21:00:36Z

‎Re: "badwiki": +1 quote

Hordes: /* Re: "badwiki" */ sign the topic

2023-11-30T20:48:58Z

‎Re: "badwiki": sign the topic

Hordes at 20:47, 30 November 2023

2023-11-30T20:47:02Z

Hordes: /* Unrelated rcfile question */ part 5

2023-10-07T20:17:02Z

‎Unrelated rcfile question: part 5

Ge0ff: /* Unrelated rcfile question */ Part 4 of the unrelated rcfile question saga

2023-10-07T20:13:03Z

‎Unrelated rcfile question: Part 4 of the unrelated rcfile question saga

Hordes: /* Unrelated rcfile question */

2023-10-06T16:28:09Z

‎Unrelated rcfile question

Hordes: /* Unrelated rcfile question */

2023-10-06T16:27:07Z

‎Unrelated rcfile question

Ge0ff: /* Unrelated rcfile question */ re: getting precise Will values

2023-10-06T13:53:03Z

‎Unrelated rcfile question: re: getting precise Will values

Hordes: /* Unrelated rcfile question */ new section

2023-10-06T06:22:00Z

‎Unrelated rcfile question: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:04, 9 June 2025
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	Here's the thing - a lot of players are silent. There are many offline players who look at the wiki and nothing else, and many online players who don't say anything. Plus, [https://desystemize.substack.com/p/desystemize-7 game RNG can make it hard to notice things]. Feedback does make it better, but what I look at is "quality/utility of the wiki at the time i mention it". [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 21:48, 30 November 2023 (CET)		Here's the thing - a lot of players are silent. There are many offline players who look at the wiki and nothing else, and many online players who don't say anything. Plus, [https://desystemize.substack.com/p/desystemize-7 game RNG can make it hard to notice things]. Feedback does make it better, but what I look at is "quality/utility of the wiki at the time i mention it". [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 21:48, 30 November 2023 (CET)
		+
		+	== Fambida's comment ==
		+
		+	Hey Ge0ff, thank you very much for adding the aptitudes for gnolls to the http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Module:Table_of_species page. I wasn't sure how to find that and edit it in myself. If you have any suggestions for improving the strategy section or difficulty of play section I'd appreciate 'em. [[User:Fambida\|Fambida]] ([[User talk:Fambida\|talk]]) 00:40, 24 January 2018 (CET)
		+
		+	: Glad to help! There is a way to find the source of all the data on a page, since everything is either simple text or template's/module's output. The list of all relevant templates and modules is at the bottom of each page (in the Edit Page mode).
		+
		+	: re: suggestions. Some players recommend gnolls of Sif Muna for experimenting with low- and middle-level spells and for playing hybrids. I haven't tried that myself, but it makes sense on paper: gnolls make decent hybrids and should have no problem getting piety because they train all the magic skills. Sif's book gifts and the ability to forget spells at will are good for that too. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 15:05, 25 January 2018 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:00, 30 November 2023
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	> I wish people would stop saying [badwiki].		> I wish people would stop saying [badwiki].

−	I think that the phrase "badwiki" promotes critical awareness of the wiki and its corresponding info. It is better if the community is doubtful of the wiki~~, thus creating~~ a preference for in-game info for factual stuff (which is more likely to be up to date), and peer-to-peer info for advice (which is easier to debunk/not take objectively). [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 21:48, 30 November 2023 (CET)	+	I think that the phrase "badwiki" promotes critical awareness of the wiki and its corresponding info. It is better if the community is doubtful of the wiki first and foremost. This creates a preference for in-game info for factual stuff (which is more likely to be up to date), and peer-to-peer info for advice (which is easier to debunk/not take objectively).
		+
		+	> The crucial thing for improving wiki's quality is feedback.
		+
		+	Here's the thing - a lot of players are silent. There are many offline players who look at the wiki and nothing else, and many online players who don't say anything. Plus, [https://desystemize.substack.com/p/desystemize-7 game RNG can make it hard to notice things]. Feedback does make it better, but what I look at is "quality/utility of the wiki at the time i mention it". [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 21:48, 30 November 2023 (CET)

@@ Line 101: / Line 101: @@
 > But there's no magic number of people that would make all strategy sections perfect automatically.
-Sure, but you don't need a hard breakpoint to see a problem. I can 100% tell you that [one person writing the strategy sections] can create issues, and 100% tell you that [ten good players writing the strategy sections] is much less likely to have said issues. There can still exist echo-chamber effects with 5, 10, or 30 editors, but it does not discount anything I mentioned.
+Sure, but you don't need a hard breakpoint to see a problem. I can 100% tell you that [one person writing the strategy sections] can create issues, and 100% tell you that [ten good players writing the strategy sections] is much less likely to have said issues. There can still exist echo-chamber effects with 5, 10, or 30 editors, but it doesn't discount anything I mentioned.
 > E.g., I don't think that Oni's felid guide requires another dozen authors to be good. It's the best read for felid players already.
-Guides are kinda a different story. I'd never accept "[[Onei%27s_3-rune_Interdimensional_Feline_Kidnapping_Walkthrough_-_FeSu%5EGozag/Jiyva#Recreative_Mutagenic_Self-Transformation_.28or_how_to_cure_single-digit_AC_syndrome.29|It is HIGHLY recommended that you get online [a form] at some point in your run]]" as part of the mainspace [[Felid]] page, it's silly advice. But it makes sense in the context of a guide. It is explicitly by a single author, it is more casual in tone (less likely to be taken as objective), and having X Form ''does'' make gameplay easier to execute.
+Guides are kinda a different story. I'd never accept "[[Onei%27s_3-rune_Interdimensional_Feline_Kidnapping_Walkthrough_-_FeSu%5EGozag/Jiyva#Recreative_Mutagenic_Self-Transformation_.28or_how_to_cure_single-digit_AC_syndrome.29|It is HIGHLY recommended that you get online [a form] at some point in your run]]" as part of the mainspace [[Felid]] page, it's silly advice. But it makes sense in the context of a guide. The guide is explicitly by a single author, the text is more casual in tone (less likely to be taken as objective), and having X Form ''does'' make gameplay easier to execute.
 > I wish people would stop saying [badwiki].
-I think that the phrase "badwiki" promotes critical awareness of the wiki and its corresponding info. It is better if the community is doubtful of the wiki, thus creating a preference for in-game info for factual stuff (which is more likely to be up to date), and peer-to-peer info for advice (which is easier to debunk/not take objectively).
+I think that the phrase "badwiki" promotes critical awareness of the wiki and its corresponding info. It is better if the community is doubtful of the wiki, thus creating a preference for in-game info for factual stuff (which is more likely to be up to date), and peer-to-peer info for advice (which is easier to debunk/not take objectively). [[User:Hordes|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes|talk]]) 21:48, 30 November 2023 (CET)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:47, 30 November 2023
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	:::: I do use Discord occasionally, but I refuse to join for personal reasons that I won't name here. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 22:17, 7 October 2023 (CEST)		:::: I do use Discord occasionally, but I refuse to join for personal reasons that I won't name here. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 22:17, 7 October 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	== Re: "badwiki" ==
		+	Context: https://old.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/186zni1/can_someone_help_me_with_new_shields/kbepxhu/ . Response here for off-topic reasons.
		+
		+	> But there's no magic number of people that would make all strategy sections perfect automatically.
		+
		+	Sure, but you don't need a hard breakpoint to see a problem. I can 100% tell you that [one person writing the strategy sections] can create issues, and 100% tell you that [ten good players writing the strategy sections] is much less likely to have said issues. There can still exist echo-chamber effects with 5, 10, or 30 editors, but it does not discount anything I mentioned.
		+
		+	> E.g., I don't think that Oni's felid guide requires another dozen authors to be good. It's the best read for felid players already.
		+
		+	Guides are kinda a different story. I'd never accept "[[Onei%27s_3-rune_Interdimensional_Feline_Kidnapping_Walkthrough_-_FeSu%5EGozag/Jiyva#Recreative_Mutagenic_Self-Transformation_.28or_how_to_cure_single-digit_AC_syndrome.29\|It is HIGHLY recommended that you get online [a form] at some point in your run]]" as part of the mainspace [[Felid]] page, it's silly advice. But it makes sense in the context of a guide. It is explicitly by a single author, it is more casual in tone (less likely to be taken as objective), and having X Form ''does'' make gameplay easier to execute.
		+
		+	> I wish people would stop saying [badwiki].
		+
		+	I think that the phrase "badwiki" promotes critical awareness of the wiki and its corresponding info. It is better if the community is doubtful of the wiki, thus creating a preference for in-game info for factual stuff (which is more likely to be up to date), and peer-to-peer info for advice (which is easier to debunk/not take objectively).

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:17, 7 October 2023
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	::: I talked to gammafunk about your rcfile questions on the [https://discord.gg/VEyx4Yk Roguelikes Discord]. It's unlikely that a function for getting the precise willpower would be added, mainly because lua functions shouldn't give more info than what's displayed in the UI. The devs are interested in having a way to check monster spells, though. Currently, lua API allows getting a list of monsters in your LOS, iterating over them, and checking their spells (see <code>monster.info:spells()</code> in [http://doc.dcss.io/modules/monster.html#monster.info:spells Crawl Lua API]; it's a bit outdated, but mostly relevant) What's missing is a function like <code>monster.info:spell_chance(spell_name)</code> that accepts a spell name and returns the same % chance, as displayed in the UI. It would provide a reliable way of detecting enemies with para chance > 0. This includes even pan lords who could have Paralysis at different spellpower (due to random HD). So if you know how to program in C++/lua, you could try submitting a pull request for this :).		::: I talked to gammafunk about your rcfile questions on the [https://discord.gg/VEyx4Yk Roguelikes Discord]. It's unlikely that a function for getting the precise willpower would be added, mainly because lua functions shouldn't give more info than what's displayed in the UI. The devs are interested in having a way to check monster spells, though. Currently, lua API allows getting a list of monsters in your LOS, iterating over them, and checking their spells (see <code>monster.info:spells()</code> in [http://doc.dcss.io/modules/monster.html#monster.info:spells Crawl Lua API]; it's a bit outdated, but mostly relevant) What's missing is a function like <code>monster.info:spell_chance(spell_name)</code> that accepts a spell name and returns the same % chance, as displayed in the UI. It would provide a reliable way of detecting enemies with para chance > 0. This includes even pan lords who could have Paralysis at different spellpower (due to random HD). So if you know how to program in C++/lua, you could try submitting a pull request for this :).
	::: Also, do you have a Discord account? You might find the #dcss channel useful. There's a bunch of players and devs who might answer your questions. You could share your game knowledge and help new players there too. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 22:13, 7 October 2023 (CEST)		::: Also, do you have a Discord account? You might find the #dcss channel useful. There's a bunch of players and devs who might answer your questions. You could share your game knowledge and help new players there too. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 22:13, 7 October 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	:::: I do use Discord occasionally, but I refuse to join for personal reasons that I won't name here. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 22:17, 7 October 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:13, 7 October 2023
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	:: Ah, thanks for the answer. Re: Will/2: if you are under Will/2, there's no way to get to Will+++. So if the forcemore updates every turn (as [https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-0.30/Hordes.rc my copy] of UV4/gammafunk rc should do), then {will=3, species=Mi, XL >22} or {will >= 4} should cover every case. Either way, I have forcemores for the phantasmal warrior/Strip Willpower message, so I know to watch out. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 18:27, 6 October 2023 (CEST)		:: Ah, thanks for the answer. Re: Will/2: if you are under Will/2, there's no way to get to Will+++. So if the forcemore updates every turn (as [https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-0.30/Hordes.rc my copy] of UV4/gammafunk rc should do), then {will=3, species=Mi, XL >22} or {will >= 4} should cover every case. Either way, I have forcemores for the phantasmal warrior/Strip Willpower message, so I know to watch out. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 18:27, 6 October 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	::: I didn't know that Will/2 makes Will+++ unreachable, that's a cool fact.
		+	::: I talked to gammafunk about your rcfile questions on the [https://discord.gg/VEyx4Yk Roguelikes Discord]. It's unlikely that a function for getting the precise willpower would be added, mainly because lua functions shouldn't give more info than what's displayed in the UI. The devs are interested in having a way to check monster spells, though. Currently, lua API allows getting a list of monsters in your LOS, iterating over them, and checking their spells (see <code>monster.info:spells()</code> in [http://doc.dcss.io/modules/monster.html#monster.info:spells Crawl Lua API]; it's a bit outdated, but mostly relevant) What's missing is a function like <code>monster.info:spell_chance(spell_name)</code> that accepts a spell name and returns the same % chance, as displayed in the UI. It would provide a reliable way of detecting enemies with para chance > 0. This includes even pan lords who could have Paralysis at different spellpower (due to random HD). So if you know how to program in C++/lua, you could try submitting a pull request for this :).
		+	::: Also, do you have a Discord account? You might find the #dcss channel useful. There's a bunch of players and devs who might answer your questions. You could share your game knowledge and help new players there too. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 22:13, 7 October 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:28, 6 October 2023
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	: There's no way to get the exact Will currently. I asked the devs about adding a lua function for that, so we'll see what they say. Also, checking for species, will pips, and xl wouldn't be sufficient, since you need to check if you have the Will/2 status too. That is available in lua, but you'd need to reimplement player_willpower() from player.cc to get the perfect answer. I just use a permanent force_more for all monsters with paralyze. You'll get some false positives, but it's a safer way. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 15:53, 6 October 2023 (CEST)		: There's no way to get the exact Will currently. I asked the devs about adding a lua function for that, so we'll see what they say. Also, checking for species, will pips, and xl wouldn't be sufficient, since you need to check if you have the Will/2 status too. That is available in lua, but you'd need to reimplement player_willpower() from player.cc to get the perfect answer. I just use a permanent force_more for all monsters with paralyze. You'll get some false positives, but it's a safer way. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 15:53, 6 October 2023 (CEST)

−	:: Ah, thanks for the answer. Re: Will/2: if you are under Will/2, there's no way to get to Will+++. So if the forcemore updates every turn (as [my https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-0.30/Hordes.rc] ~~copy~~ of UV4/gammafunk rc should do), then {will=3, species=Mi, XL >22} or {will >= 4} should cover every case. ~~In any case~~, I have forcemores for the phantasmal warrior/Strip Willpower message so I know to watch out. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 18:27, 6 October 2023 (CEST)	+	:: Ah, thanks for the answer. Re: Will/2: if you are under Will/2, there's no way to get to Will+++. So if the forcemore updates every turn (as [https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-0.30/Hordes.rc my copy] of UV4/gammafunk rc should do), then {will=3, species=Mi, XL >22} or {will >= 4} should cover every case. Either way, I have forcemores for the phantasmal warrior/Strip Willpower message, so I know to watch out. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 18:27, 6 October 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:27, 6 October 2023
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	: There's no way to get the exact Will currently. I asked the devs about adding a lua function for that, so we'll see what they say. Also, checking for species, will pips, and xl wouldn't be sufficient, since you need to check if you have the Will/2 status too. That is available in lua, but you'd need to reimplement player_willpower() from player.cc to get the perfect answer. I just use a permanent force_more for all monsters with paralyze. You'll get some false positives, but it's a safer way. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 15:53, 6 October 2023 (CEST)		: There's no way to get the exact Will currently. I asked the devs about adding a lua function for that, so we'll see what they say. Also, checking for species, will pips, and xl wouldn't be sufficient, since you need to check if you have the Will/2 status too. That is available in lua, but you'd need to reimplement player_willpower() from player.cc to get the perfect answer. I just use a permanent force_more for all monsters with paralyze. You'll get some false positives, but it's a safer way. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 15:53, 6 October 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	:: Ah, thanks for the answer. Re: Will/2: if you are under Will/2, there's no way to get to Will+++. So if the forcemore updates every turn (as [my https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-0.30/Hordes.rc] copy of UV4/gammafunk rc should do), then {will=3, species=Mi, XL >22} or {will >= 4} should cover every case. In any case, I have forcemores for the phantasmal warrior/Strip Willpower message so I know to watch out. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]]) 18:27, 6 October 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:53, 6 October 2023
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	force_more_message += orc sorcerer		force_more_message += orc sorcerer
	However using you.willpower() is giving the number of pips; that is, you get you.willpower() = 4 at Will++++, not the desired 160. Is there a way to get the ''exact'' willpower score? This is useful as, e.g. a {Minotaur, XL 22, display Will+++} is immune to [[great orb of eyes]]' paralysis, but same mino at XL 21 isn't. If possible, I would prefer not to add "If you.species() == "(Minotaur\|Hill Orc\|Human\|(etc.)" and you.xl() > x and you.willpower() > 3" for a ton of different cases. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]])		However using you.willpower() is giving the number of pips; that is, you get you.willpower() = 4 at Will++++, not the desired 160. Is there a way to get the ''exact'' willpower score? This is useful as, e.g. a {Minotaur, XL 22, display Will+++} is immune to [[great orb of eyes]]' paralysis, but same mino at XL 21 isn't. If possible, I would prefer not to add "If you.species() == "(Minotaur\|Hill Orc\|Human\|(etc.)" and you.xl() > x and you.willpower() > 3" for a ton of different cases. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]])
		+
		+	: There's no way to get the exact Will currently. I asked the devs about adding a lua function for that, so we'll see what they say. Also, checking for species, will pips, and xl wouldn't be sufficient, since you need to check if you have the Will/2 status too. That is available in lua, but you'd need to reimplement player_willpower() from player.cc to get the perfect answer. I just use a permanent force_more for all monsters with paralyze. You'll get some false positives, but it's a safer way. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 15:53, 6 October 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:22, 6 October 2023
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	: Yeah, it makes sense to follow the existing style conventions. I've reverted changes for a couple of articles I edited recently. Also, it might be worth mentioning the preferred way of dealing with src links/citations in the CrawlWiki's Style guide. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 02:33, 28 June 2023 (CEST)		: Yeah, it makes sense to follow the existing style conventions. I've reverted changes for a couple of articles I edited recently. Also, it might be worth mentioning the preferred way of dealing with src links/citations in the CrawlWiki's Style guide. [[User:Ge0ff\|Ge0ff]] ([[User talk:Ge0ff\|talk]]) 02:33, 28 June 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	== Unrelated rcfile question ==
		+
		+	This has nothing to do with the wiki, but I figured you can send this q to someone who knows better. Basically, I am attempting to add LUA code to do the following:
		+	If willpower > 135
		+	force_more_message += orc sorcerer
		+	However using you.willpower() is giving the number of pips; that is, you get you.willpower() = 4 at Will++++, not the desired 160. Is there a way to get the ''exact'' willpower score? This is useful as, e.g. a {Minotaur, XL 22, display Will+++} is immune to [[great orb of eyes]]' paralysis, but same mino at XL 21 isn't. If possible, I would prefer not to add "If you.species() == "(Minotaur\|Hill Orc\|Human\|(etc.)" and you.xl() > x and you.willpower() > 3" for a ton of different cases. [[User:Hordes\|Hordes]] ([[User talk:Hordes\|talk]])