Talk:Troll

Strategy Section: Trolls

Ok, again I have an urge to make cuts here with a hatchet rather than a scalpel. So I'll discuss it here first.

In the first place, much of the strategy goes into more depth than may be helpful for a (primarily) informational page. This might be forgivable if the information offered is particularly good and focused on considerations specific to how Trolls play. But, alas, this is not the case.

The spell list applies to nearly every species and background except berserkers, so I'm not sure why it is mentioned here. Better advice would simply be, "Don't let those aptitudes discourage you from using magic, when and if it makes sense for your character. Just expect it to take longer to train those magic skills up." It sends a lot of incorrect messages, even if just implicitly, to put this information here. Just off the top of my head, it may imply to new players (who are most in need of clear and accurate advice) some or all of the following:

1.) These spells are so widely available at any stage of the game that one can always expect them — why else would they be mentioned on the informational page for this species?

2.) These spells are somehow necessary for Trolls, as nearly all other species pages do not have spell recommendations, even in their strategy sections.

3.) those spells somehow synergize in some special way with Trolls, because again, these spells are not mentioned in the context of other species' pages.

There are problems with the god recommendations as well. Nearly all of the observations that are accurate apply to all characters, whereas most of what does apply specifically to Trolls is not true. For example, is Makhleb really stronger for Trolls than for other species due to the fact that Trolls regenerate those HP costs quickly? Granted, Trolls regenerate faster than any other species, but I don't believe that this true fact is what makes Makhleb a strong choice for Trolls. Troll regeneration is good but not for that reason, and Makhleb is good for Trolls (or for anyone really), but not for that reason. Plus some of the stuff is just off-base, or even self-contradictory; e.g., the "Difficulty of Play" section correctly tells people that they need not worry about hunger on a Troll, but then later on the strategy section recommends Kiku on the basis of that god's ability to provide snacks via receive corpses...

So yes, again—I think the best editing here will be done with an axe. Or at least a very large knife. I'd like to hear what, if anything, people think may be worth retaining.

Yours, and into

Tried to remove the things that aren't Troll-specific. It's worth reminding people to get L1 and L2 spells online with Trolls - this is a strategy section, so it's occasionally not a bad idea to reiterate things that are true for all characters. That being said, I did try to pare down the god recommendations to those that I think are useful for Trolls:

• Okawaru: No doubt here, Trolls are the best Unarmed fighters and Heroism is an instant +5 slaying for them.
• Trog: Powerful panic buttons that don't tax Trolls' bad aptitudes - worth mentioning. Also, he goes with bashy characters, which Trolls are.
• Ely: Powerful healing abilities are more useful when you have shit defenses, which trolls normally do. And the part about them not worrying about the huge food costs is worth mentioning.
• Jiyva: Works well for races with limited equipment slots, and also provides some auxiliary nutrition in corpseless branches. A good choice for a Troll.
• Ashenzari: Reduces the amount of effort to get a Haste-casting troll by 50% easily.
• Kiku: Was a little less sure on this one, but being able to get corpses in corpseless branches is good, and the torment strategy sounds promising though I've never personally tried it.

-Ion frigate (talk) 21:36, 6 February 2014 (CET)

Hey Ion frigate, thanks for the reply. After thinking about it some more, Trolls are often recommended for new players to try, so perhaps a bit more about strategy on this page compared to the other species is not so out of place. And I like what you've done with the god section. However I do think some things should be prioritized (I am going to move the bit about hydras and Troll claws to first paragraph), and condensing the text a bit more will make it more helpful for players. I'll go ahead and make the edits that I think are necessary but try to leave in as much of the potentially helpful strategy as possible. If you think I accidentally snipped out anything helpful, revert and/or let me know here. Thanks!

Yours, and into