Talk:CapnCrunch's Mummy Wizard guide

Some commentary: 1) A Mummy's "clockless" play-style makes it pretty hard to hang onto Kiku piety! Finding an item of regeneration is a priority, and it would be nice if Sublimation of Blood showed up sooner! 2) You might want to reorganize the page a bit; I'd suggest listing all skill goals, spells, etc together for each phase. 3) From your starting book, learn: Magic Dart, Repel Missiles, Mephitic Cloud, and Blink doesn't work: At level 2, you have 6 levels, but you can't learn Mephitic yet because it's level 3. The "obvious" load is to take Blink and Repel Missiles; you could take Summon Imp for a head start on summoning, but if you just leave the last two spell-levels free, you can pick up Mephitic on the next gain. After that, I'd go for Summon Imp, and optionally Slow, as you likely won't be anywhere near Kiku yet. --Mental Mouse 18:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Another problem with the Kiku piety is that the imps. (Which are great, abusing the shadow "reanimate dead" imp early on (before you join a religion) should really be mentioned clearer). Are demons. Kiku doesn't give you piety if they kill things for you. --Soyweiser 19:52, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

More thoughts: "Forcing" Mephitic Cloud like that seems to make it unreliable just when you're facing centaurs. It might be better to get all three level 2 spells and train Air with Repel Missiles for a couple of levels before you get Mephitic. Slow is definitely the loser here, as it's Yet Another School to learn and likewise unreliable. --Mental Mouse 21:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

The 0.9 skill system has made it much easier to train Spellcasting, so the currently-given order works a lot better. --Mental Mouse 05:23, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't know for sure which release made this change, but Kikubaaqudgha's most common punishment is now HP rot. Abandoning him is therefore a terrible idea for any mummy without a wand of healing and several recharge scrolls; the alternative, self-restoration (permanent MP loss), is very unattractive for many players, self included. As this page is the #2 Google result for 'dcss crawlwiki', I'm going to add a big *OBSOLETE* warning across the top of it unless someone can give me a compelling reason not to. --Roguelikedev 19:13, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Which version are you playing? This wiki is supposed to be 0.9 only. (As that is the current release). I have had little problems with HP rot with my VpWi when I abandoned Kiku. Also, we have various kinds of templates. So if you want to tag a guide as old, there are ways to do so. --Soyweiser 20:32, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Looking at the code for Necromancy 3 miscasts, it looks like rot has about a 1 in 18 chance of happening for characters with rot resistance (i.e. undead) and those are the only effects that will cause rotting for a character with rot resistance. This is the same frequency that a Soul eater, a Reaper, experience drain, or stat loss will happen. --Mindlar 21:37, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Looking at the rot call that the Necromancy 3 miscast makes, characters that are permanently undead (or petrified/statues) are immune to that one as well. --Mindlar 22:10, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Retracted. I forgot about Mummy's innate rot resistance. --Roguelikedev 17:44, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

One small thing, this guide also works great if you play a bloodless vampire. :D --Soyweiser 20:36, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Removed the Version08 tag, as this guide is actually one of the most up-to-date. The one thing that's still a bit iffy, is that the original target skill levels for various skills are now more accessible. We may need to tweak some of those according to 0.9 experience, but that's verging into micromanaging anyway. --Mental Mouse 21:37, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

There's a couple of lessons I've learned, the hard way, which may be useful for this build. they may be general advice, and I make no claims to greatness, which is why I'm adding them here, for you guys to discuss. Edit or critique as appropriate. But for newbies like me, I feel this stuff should save a lot of pain and suffering. It took me awhile to figure out, and seems obvious now.

1. Train Mephitic Cloud as soon as you can. The sooner you can cast this reliably, the safer you'll be. I focus each affiliated magic skill as soon as it reaches level 1, turning it off only after it is sufficiently high. I only focus spellcasting AFTER focusing conjurations, air magic, and poison magic. The other starting spells are secondary until you can cast this one reliably.

This may border on micromanagement, but this build is so focused on doing things in a certain order, I feel this advice is necessary. Mephitic Cloud is WAY more effective early offense than Imps. When I try to mess around with blink and repel missiles first, I find myself without a good way to take down tougher opponents. I know there's some debate about spell order, but a single cast of Mephitic Cloud is going to disable multiple tough opponents (i.e. the aforementioned centaurs) while two or three imps are just going to get killed pretty quickly. As was mentioned above, the new skill system makes it possible to force it easier.

Sidenote- I strongly disagree with getting Translocations to 3; I've had plenty of success just getting it to level 1, then bringing it up later on after I've got my other skills locked down. Thoughts?

2. As a rule of thumb, never engage strong enemies in melee combat until AFTER they are confused. Tougher enemies have a lower chance of being confused by Mephitic Cloud each turn. It's much riskier if you try and engage them and hope they get confused after you reach melee range.

2a. THIS one actually is just a universal rule about confused enemies, but especially appropriate for a squishy stabber: Remember that confused enemies seem to have an equal chance of moving/attacking, attacking themselves, or doing other miscellaneous actions. That means that a confused enemy in a narrow hallway will have a much higher chance of hitting you (with only two directions to travel) than if that same enemy were in an open room and could move/attack in one of 8 different directions. Strong enemies in narrow hallways are much more of a threat than strong enemies out in the open. You may be tempted to lure that ogre or that hill giant into a hallway to confuse and stab him--don't do it. If you can avoid being swarmed by other enemies, stab tough opponents in the open.

3. Do NOT take your time in the first few dungeon levels! The longer you wait, the higher the chance of running into OOD monsters, and even the weakest OOD enemies will kill you before you can cast Mephitic Cloud reliably. On D1 and D2, don't wait until your HP is fully recovered to continue exploring. Continue exploring when your MP is full (you need every single magic dart) and your HP is over half. By D4, you'll have to be more cautious. Likewise, if you see a down stair: clear the immediate area of threats, then go downstairs and then back to your current level. If the next level is generated with a staircase nearby and no monsters in sight, go down that one too. Don't explore these areas, just try and get them generated as soon as possible. This will be the difference between being beaten silly by Sigmund on D2 and destroying him on D6. There will be plenty of time to be cautious later in the game, when you've mastered the spells to take down tough opponents.

I'm not entirely sure if the game mechanics work this way, but I swear to god this strategy seems to keep me alive. I know that if I thoroughly clear a level before going to the next one, and wait until my HP is full, I start encountering Orc Priests VERY early. Possibly even on D2. I initially took my time on with this build, being ultra cautious, and I kid you not, I ran into Prince Ribbit and two other uniques--I think one of them was Psyche, I can't remember--super early. Somewhere around D4. It was this one beatdown that made me start diving quickly.

3a. With this build, more so than with other more traditional builds (i.e. high elf wizard or dwarf fighter), be prepared to retreat from enemies you don't have the spells to tackle. There's a good chance you'll find at least one or two levels that are simply too risky to clear thoroughly before you've learned Agony and Twisted Resurrection. Don't hesitate to just find the nearest stairway and skip that floor, only returning AFTER you're tough enough. Remember, you've got way more time to do so than other species!

CapnCrunch 19:51, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Mostly good points, though I think getting Blink reliable is almost as important as getting Meph reliable. Excellent point about the OOD monsters, and that's probably how you got those early uniques and Orc Priests. The 9.1 boost to starting HP does make it less important to heal completely. --Mental Mouse 21:29, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't know what this wiki procedure is for adding stuff, but someone might want to include whichever notes they feel are appropriate on the main wiki page, if they're useful.CapnCrunch 21:50, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Just one note on the abyss: This is just my thought, but perhaps this guide should add something about getting the abyssal rune. As several other guides have pointed out, the abyss is easier than some other branches. And when a mummy wizard is ready for end-game stuff, the abyss is PERFECT for him. No food clock and channeling means that, more or less, it's a great place to level-up without worrying about your haunt summons draining your xp. The biggest threats are, i suppose, tier 1 demons, and all the risk of mutation. But if you follow this guide to a T, you'll have deflect missiles, swiftness, and flight to boost your survivability. In theory, a mummy could scum here indefinitely. What do you guys think? Are there OOD monsters in the abyss?CapnCrunch 01:46, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

While I'm at it, consider adding why THIS build works better than other mummy spellcaster builds: I've tried doing mummy necromancers and found myself getting stomped on by resistant enemies by the time I reach the orc caverns. I assume the same goes for any other semi-viable mummy builds--this build's emphasis on developing different skills to different levels, as appropriate, gives the user the versatility to last late game.CapnCrunch 05:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I GOT OVERCONFIDENT AND COCKY AND TRIED TO GO FOR AN ALL RUNE WIN AND DIED! THIS BUILD IS STILL AWESOME BUT NOOOOOOOO!CapnCrunch 04:14, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I'm still playing this build, and I will until I can beat this darn game. Having said that, once again, I REALLY think the strategy should be forcing Mephitic Cloud as fast as possible. As in, turning off superfluous skills, and focusing each respective school until it hits a level high enough for you to cast mephitic cloud at Great. I focus Conjurations till 4, Poison till 2, and Air until _4_. Air magic gets more use later in the game, so I bump it up a few levels. I assume this is cheaper than getting conjurations to 6. I argue Mephitic Cloud because, even with 0 translocations, you can cast blink at "good" with high enough spellcasting skill. And once you get translocations to 1, even better. There's really no reason to get Translocations all the way to 3. By the time you can afford to focus the skill, your spellcasting is so high you don't need to improve blink anymore, anyway. One other point: It should be noted that, late game, getting Necromancy to level 27 isn't really a priority. Possibly not even past 22 or 23. I'm not sure you need to, at least. I've done a LITTLE number crunching and with the Mummy's two intrinsic boosts, and if you increase spellpower with a few magic items (or just one staff of death), you can come REALLY close to the 200 spellpower cap without maxing out Necromancy. If someone wants to figure out the numbers, it should be fairly easy to estimate what level you need to get necromancy to come close to that cap. I think that players should estimate their spellpower and decide when to lower necromancy to secondary or even tertiary priority. The guide says just worry about getting Haunt to excellent--more than this, there is no reason to train Necromancy much further, until you're VERY late game.CapnCrunch 20:10, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

More commentary! The guide makes a big case out of abandoning Kiku, saying wait for an amulet of faith and one or TWO rings of sustain abilities. And I gotta say, this is not at all necessary in any way, shape, or form. The stat drains are relatively few and far between, and by no means require Sustain Abilities to manage. The jewellry is a plus but by no means necessary. It should be emphasized that you can abandon kiku at any time you're ready, not just when you have a full set of equipment.

Also! In terms of which branches to tackle (assuming that material is included in the guide--idk who edited it and updated it), I think the following should be included in the guide: "After abandoning Kiku but before joining Sif Muna, the patient player can bring a complement of Abominations and scum the early dungeon levels, until gauranteed Out-of-depth monsters are generated. Take full advantage of the lack of food AND lack of piety to do this! The biggest risk here is being ambushed while inattentively waiting for thousands of turns. The abominations will help prevent this, and assist you when taking out any Slime Creature swarms or Cyclops attacks. The number of abominations depends on how meticulous you are, and how powerful your character is. Note that this is an inherently risky strategy, time-consuming, and only viable on the first few levels. The game will generate monsters that are up to 12 dunegon levels deeper then your current level, so be sure to know your own strength and how far you can scum before it becomes too risky. Note also that this is, at best, a minor boost to your experience, as the game will stop generating OOD monsters after you scum for a long enough time." This, like the strategy of remaining in the abyss for as long as possible, may or may not be controversial inside the game's community. I have no clue; all i know is that I'm gonna do them if it means actually winning.

Branch order was removed since branch order is in the Walkthrough and is the same for every character really, with mild exceptions for Tomb and those with rPois Greep 20:49, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

While I agree that the guide was waaaaay too f-ing long, I think perhaps the editing has gone a bit too far. For example, there was a unique strategy for dealing with the vaults. The walkthrough suggests using Alistair's intoxication; mummies can't use this and the guide had a strategy for that.CapnCrunch 03:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Restore it, then, and any other parts you wish hadn't been removed. Since you've been following this guide closely, you know what's useful in it and what isn't.--Flaming Corpse 04:18, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

ALL RUNE WIN!CapnCrunch 15:21, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I took your advice, and added the stuff I feel is unique to mummy wizards. The only thing I'm worried about now is formatting the guide in the same way as the other guides--i.e. lumping all spells, skills, gear, branches, and so forth into the same sections. Right now I've folded tactics, skills, and spells into the game progression walkthrough. I think you'll agree, however, that this is somewhat appropriate, as this build focuses heavily on what skills to develop at what time, rather than picking a few key skills and focusing on them throughout the game. At least, the other character guides seem to indicate as much.CapnCrunch 06:03, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll try and edit this guide down to 15 kilobytes next. Some of the formatting can be greatly improved.CapnCrunch 16:01, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm in the process of reformating and shortening things. A lot of this stuff can be rewritten in bullet points to trim it down; I'll do that next.CapnCrunch 18:24, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Good! Don't worry about formatting: our guides aren't all that consistently structured anyway. Whatever works.--Flaming Corpse 16:47, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

I really gotta streamline spells and strategy; I'll get around to it. I'm too busy developing a skald strategy that doesn't involve me getting eaten by gnolls.CapnCrunch 01:40, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

What is the policy on version disclaimers? For the most part, like 99%, this guide is accurate for .10. Can i delete the disclaimer?CapnCrunch 05:00, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

There's no policy. If, to the best of your knowledge, it's up-to-date, then slap a {{version010}} on it. And by the way, nice work.--Flaming Corpse 20:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and remove the "this is a character guide" banner -- it should be self-evident, and if the "notes on 0.10" have already been worked into the article, remove that too.--Flaming Corpse 21:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Do i have to keep trimming this guide down, or can we cap it at 16k? It's a solid strategy now, and it's quite possible to get an all-rune win with it. If you guys haven't tried a character with it, you should. Then help me get my skald past d20.CapnCrunch 16:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Length isn't an issue for me, as long as the advice is on-topic and good.--Flaming Corpse 02:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)