Talk:Ghoul

Where should Saprovore be linking to? Secondly, does anyone think the redirects for the innate abilities are less than consistent? --MadSimon 03:48, 6 March 2013 (CET)

We have an existing Saprovore page that that link should direct to... As it stands, our policy on mutations is a bit wonky:

• We have a great big page for good mutations and bad mutations, which should ideally be based on the game's definitions (different mutation sources call for "good", "bad", or "random" mutations). However, when it was first put together, it had a few thrown in the wrong place because although they aren't really 100% beneficial, the game still considers them good. These two pages should ideally contain all the mutations you could theoretically get with any character.
• Demonspawn mutations, draconian mutations, and Jiyva mutations all get their own pages, since those are distinct sets acquirable through specific conditions. Those are logical enough.
• Species mutations that are completely unique to one species generally get explained on the species' own page. Deep dwarf damage shaving, for instance, gets fully explained there.
• Since Saprovore is a mutation that several species have innately, but which cannot be acquired through any source of mutation, I figure giving it its own page makes sense. That way we only have to explain it in-depth once, and each of the appropriate species can just link to it.

Does that all make sense? I'd be up for an overhaul if some better system could be devised. --MoogleDan 04:12, 6 March 2013 (CET)

Okay, cleaned up, condensed, and tried to clarify. I worry there might be a bit more info than needed here, especially with god recommendations (which generally depend more on background than species choice, except perhaps for "this God does *not* work well")... Anyway, I left it in for now.

Yours, and into

Usefulness of this paragraph in strategy section

Some text was restored in this paragraph:

"Ghouls can also make for competent casters. Their aptitudes for it are not as bad as they first appear: they are good at Ice and Earth Magic, and generally passable at most other things. They are, however, held back by their low intelligence: those who want to make a serious Ghoul caster will want to pick a spellcasting background and devote their stat increases to nothing but Int. However, their ability to eat any and all corpses makes hunger costs less of an issue (partially offsetting the low Int), while their good HP and unarmed abilities give them better resilience than most casters."

I am fine with the first two sentences, but I don't think the focus on hunger costs is particularly helpful or true. Hunger cost is very seldom an issue for any casting background. In fact I'd say hunger costs from spells are worse for ghouls than most other species, because any amount of rotting usually matters more than having to occasionally eat some permafood. The low intelligence and lower than average magic pool is a bit of a drag but can be offset by other things. The phrase "unarmed abilities give them better resilience" is a bit misleading as well; the things that make ghouls good at unarmed combat (claws and good aptitude for it) do not increase their ability to withstand damage.

Yours, and into

I used 'resilience' to mean durability in combat, which is affected by both offense and defense (dead monsters don't hit you). It could potentially stand to be rephrased, but the point is that finding yourself with zero MP next to a wolf isn't the death sentence it can be to a DEFE.

Their low Int is *well* worth noting - it's the worst in the game: you're not going to be getting good spells usefully castable without throwing (almost) everything into it. While they can get around hunger costs, there's nothing that 'offsets' the effect low Int has on spell power, other than getting lucky with enhancers or +Int items (which is true of any race).

You're also way overestimating the impact that rotting has on ghouls - they have high base HP, so losing about 10% of that to rot isn't horrible. And they can stuff themselves silly on every passing corpse, generally undoing most or all of the rot in the process. Rot is a nasty thing for other races because it's hard to fix and accumulates. Ghouls have neither of these issues.

"Hunger costs are never an issue" is a mantra you see a lot, but it comes from a misunderstanding of the way they work. Hunger costs are an issue, they just aren't in an obvious fashion. Functioning correctly, they don't penalize you, they restrict you. When a spell is costing you 200+ hunger to cast, you don't spam it. Races that can get around hunger costs can get spells online a bit sooner, and that's an advantage. -Ion frigate (talk) 10:05, 6 February 2014 (CET)