Difference between revisions of "User:Hordes"

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Revision as of 01:35, 29 December 2023

Relevant credentials: Hordes (greaterplayer) | Moriya (greaterplayer #2) | HorDDes (tournament)

Important links:

User:Hordes/Guide

User:Hordes/Basics Guide

User:Hordes/Talisman

(The rest of the page is just writing stuff that's WIP)

Djinn have +11 aptitudes in magic, but are forced to train all skills equally. At the start of the game, this equates to training a single school at a -3.3 aptitude. But by the time a caster reaches mid-game, their effective aptitude is higher than -3 in practice.[1] And, since every school is trained at once, dual- and triple-school spells are very easy to train. Overall, a dedicated mage will not have trouble casting spells.

Tengu are a versatile, but frail species. Their aptitudes are good across the board, with impeccably good skill in Conjurations and Air Magic. And with 2 auxiliary attacks, melee is not out of the question. However, Tengu are among the most fragile species in the game: they have -20% HP and can't wear helmets/boots.

Note that, despite being described as "agile" and "light", Tengu do not get any special bonus from the Dodging skill. It is true that Acrobatic and Evasive Flight grant EV, however, these bonuses are unaffected by skill or armour encumbrance. Therefore, wearing heavy armour is not out of the question.

Form Min Dmg Max Dmg Min Skill Max Skill Dmg/level Special
Normal 3 N/A N/A N/A
Beast 3 0 7 N/A Extra slaying to all melee combat
Flux 3 6 13 N/A x66% melee damage; contaminating melee
Blade 14 18 10 19 0.88 Extra offhand punch damage
Maw 5 10 19 N/A Maw auxiliary attack
Serpent 10 10 19 N/A Constriction
Dragon 24 33 16 25 1 +10 strength; 2 auxiliary attacks
Statue 12 10 19 N/A x150% melee damage; all actions x150% slower
Storm 24 30 23 27 1.5 Electrocution brand; cleaving
Death 9 23 27 N/A Melee inflicts drain, slow, weak

List of gods, sorted by "when you get the first strong perk". (IMO)

Gods that benefit you on first worship:

Gozag has gold distraction (maybe worth listing here?), Fedhas pacifies sleepcaps

Gods that benefit you at 1*:

IMO these gods don't provide good benefit at 1*, but provide some benefit: Ely Purification, Zin Recite, Makh heal on kill, WJC Lunge/Whirlwind, Dith stealth, Kiku Wretches (hard to use w/o good spell).

Gods that benefit you at 2*:

Gods that benefit you at 3* or more:

  • Kiku (Variable; based on skill training)
  • Vehumet (Variable; based on skill training)
  • Makhleb (3*; Lesser Servant)
  • Ru (3*; Draw Out Power)
  • WJC (3*; Serpent's Lash)
  • Zin (3*; Imprison)
  • Dithmenos (4*; Shadow Mimic)

Gods that hurt you on first worship:

  • Chei (Slow)
  • Jiyva (Eats items, usually comes late)
  • Xom (Xom)
  • TSO (Halo messes with stealth)

When you start with a melee-oriented background, you'll get a starting weapon of choice.

Simple Starting Weapon

Used by most weapon-wielding backgrounds.

  • Short sword1.png Short sword - Short Blades aren't great at regular combat, though they are good at stabbing. Uses dexterity instead of strength.
  • Mace1.png Mace - Maces & Flails are the strongest "strength" weapon, at least in terms of stats.
  • Hand axe1.png Hand axe - Axes have the ability to cleave. In addition to hitting a "main" target for 100% damage, they'll hit every monster adjacent to you for 70% damage. However, axes deal less damage than other weapons.
  • Spear1.png Spear - Polearms have reaching - they can attack from an extra tile away. Despite their worse stats, spears are the best option to fight single targets, due to their extra range.
  • Falchion1.png Falchion - Long Blades are similar to Maces; higher base damage, but no gimmick. They use dexterity instead of strength.
  • Glove1.png Unarmed Combat - Unarmed Combat is usually the weakest of the available "weapons". Certain species, like Trolls and Ghouls, receive special bonuses to Unarmed attacks. Unarmed can become strong at high skill, but that's a long while away.

Good Starting Weapon

Fighters and Gladiators start with a better ("good") starting weapon than other backgrounds.

  • Rapier1.png Rapier - Short Blades are good at stabbing, but weaker at plain combat. Rapiers are the only "good" weapon that stats below 1.0 attack delay, meaning monsters won't get a chance to hit you twice.
  • Flail1.png Flail - Maces & Flails have higher base damage, but no special gimmicks.
  • War axe1.png War axe - Axes can cleave, but deal less single-target damage. Great option for strong species, like Hill Orcs and Minotaurs.
  • Trident1.png Trident - Polearms can attack from a tile away. Like the spear before it, tridents are usually the best option against single targets.
  • Long sword1.png Long sword - Long swords are slightly more powerful than flails, though long swords use dexterity instead of strength.
  • Quarterstaff.png Quarterstaff - Quarterstaves deal more damage/turn than any other option, but they are two-handed, meaning you can't wear a shield with one. Because of this restriction, only Gladiators and Formicid Fighters can start with one. In addition, Staves are rarer than other weapon types.
  • Glove1.png Unarmed Combat - Unarmed Combat is usually the weakest of the available "weapons". Certain species, like Trolls and Ghouls, receive special bonuses to Unarmed attacks. Unarmed can become strong at high skill, but that's a long while away.

Strategy

  1. ↑ Djinn split XP between 12 skills at a +11 aptitude. As XP cost = 2^(-apt/4), each skill costs 2^(-11/4) * 12 = 1.78x the XP of a single skill. This equates to training a single "skill" at -4 * log2(1.78) = -3.32 aptitude. However, this "skill" includes both [every Spell School] and Spellcasting. Once you that into account, Djinn are better than a -3.32 aptitude suggests. Say you want to cast a Conjurations spell:
    • If you were playing a Kobold and only cared about spell power, you would train to {5 Spellcasting, 15 Conjurations}. This would cost 7275 skill points.
    • A Djinn would reach the same amount of power at {13 Spellcasting, 13 Conjurations}. Each of the 12 skills costs 713 skill points, or 8556 skill points in total. This is only +17.6% more XP than the Kobold, or a -0.9 aptitude. This happens because going from 12 -> 13 in a skill is cheaper than going from 14 -> 15 in a skill.
    • In practice, spell power isn't everything. The Kobold may want to train more Spellcasting, for either MP or spell level purposes. Said Kobold at {10 Spellcasting, 13.5 Conjurations} would reach the same power, but at a cost of 7913 skill points. Because Djinn don't need to spend XP for MP or spell levels, they can invest more into spell power.
    For dual-school spells, Djinn only become better. Using the same analysis for Firebal, a Kobold would be efficient at {8 Spellcasting, 15 Fire, 15 Conj}, costing 153 skill points. A Djinni equals that at {13.6 Spellcasting, 13.6 Fire, 13.6 Conj}, or 94.44 skill points, which is 61.7% the XP. That's an effective aptitude of +2.7 - even better than Deep Elves!
    The exact efficiency depends on the level of skill. At low skill levels, Djinn are truly around a -3 aptitude for single-school spells. At XL 27, Djinn can be cheaper than Kobolds, even for single-school spells.
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